Baby vaccinations - a friendly discussion!

[FTMaz]

Hi all
I have felt the need to put ‘friendly discussion’ in this post as I posted the same thing somewhere else and people said some really nasty things. To clarify I am not an anti vaxxer, I don’t believe in putting my child at risk but I am also interested to hear the opinions of others, especially those who may be better informed than myself.

for context my feelings around this have mainly come about since COVID. I had the vaccine and had an extreme reaction which resulted in me being very ill and advised not to get boosters etc. this is not me saying that the vaccine was a bad thing, just that I personally had a bad experience. Covid also made me very distrusting of those in power, especially given the plethora of things that have come out since.

so…what I am actually asking. My baby had his 8 week jabs a couple of weeks ago and is due his 12 weeks. Since having the jabs I have gone down a rabbit hole of research and it’s making me feel very anxious that I am not making an informed decision but one that is just forced upon us because of guilt and societal pressure. I had both the flu and whooping cough vaccines when I was pregnant for the sake of my baby as I said I would never have another vaccine after what happened with the Covid one so I am not someone who is just trying to avoid them. Does anyone else have similar thoughts? I’m keen to hear from medical professionals who have an informed opinion rather than selling the party line.

again if you are going to reply please do so only with good intention, I don’t need to be told that I’m an awful, irresponsible parent just for wanting to ensure I am fully informed.

thank you!

you’re not going to be any more informed posting on here where anyone can say anything with no backing and post links to dubious sources. Go look at medical journals, speak to GP etc.

I understand your concern given your reaction to the covid vaccine.

I am picking up on your language here where you're talking about doing research and wanting people who have opinions that are 'informed'. The medical professionals who recommend vaccines to the vast majority are informed. There is no conspiracy.

Unfortunately some people will have reactions to the vaccines but for the vast vast majority, the protection they provide against the diseases they vaccinate for far outweighs the side effects and the risk those diseases pose.

It's easy to forget how terrible these diseases were because we just don't see them anymore, thanks to vaccines.

As a side note, I always said I'd get my DC vaccinated, and I did because logically I knew it was the best thing, but when it's your own children it's hard not to worry.

I’m keen to hear from medical professionals who have an informed opinion rather than selling the party line.

Why do you think the NHS and all medical organisations share a "party line" rather than it just being the reasonable conclusion of all evidence and research?

That's a genuine question, not a snide one.

Op have you read the NHS guidelines and NICE recommendations. Mass vaccination cost the country a lot and they don't do it unless needed. Ie we still don't vaccinate against chicken pox in the UK mainly due to us adopting the shingles vaccination for older people and that they don't know how it will effect immunity long term (this may well change if evidence prove it to be beneficial).

Also reading unicef guidelines is a good source of information.

Lots of people with have anecdotal stories but looking at the numbers overall is really the only way to make an informed decision. Anything we do in life will carry a risk, it's which risk are you willing to take.

I'd strongly recommend speaking to medical professionals rather than strangers on the internet, they're always happy to give more info and answer any questions you might have

I'm a GP with a 2 year old daughter who has been fully vaccinated.
Many hundreds of thousands of babies get these vaccines every year, and serious adverse reactions are affect only very small numbers, as is the risk with any medical treatment/intervention. The diseases they protect against can cause brain damage, infertility, paralysis and death, and in areas where too many parents are choosing not to vaccinate outbreaks of these illnesses are re-emerging.
I have previously worked in a children's hospital, and have seen some very sad cases of life changing effects of vaccine preventable illnesses in unvaccinated children, and one terrible case of an unvaccinated child dying of a vaccine preventable illness. The online rabbit holes can be extremely convincing and seed doubt in parents minds, but universal childhood vaccination is the "party line" within the health profession for very good reason. Apart from anything, children becoming extremely ill, disabled and dying is very expensive for the NHS and the economy so even if you don't believe the government has altruistic motives, there are clear financial motives to avoid these terrible outcomes for children.

It is ultimately your decision, but my daughter will receive all of her vaccines at the recommended times, as will any future children I have.

If you want informed opinions from a medical professional as you say then speak to your GP. The covid vaccine was brand new, your babies vaccines have been going a very long time and are totally safe. It would be neglectful to stop the course now. I’m sure the GP will answer any specific questions.

It's the ''party line'' for very good reason. Vaccinations save lives, every single healthcare organisation, not just the NHS recommends them.

We're incredibly fortunate to have access to these vaccinations, some mothers in the world would give anything to be able to protect their babies from such awful diseases.

Vaccines are one of the best things to come out of modern medicine, along side antibiotics. They are responsible for saving millions of lives.
It's such a shame that conspiracy theorists have become so powerful in the manipulation of children's health.
These theorists are no better than the people they're apparently warning us about, they use scare mongering to steer the masses down a different direction, into following what they believe.
OP my advice would be to look at some genuine research papers about vaccines and their effects. It's hard to not get lost down the rabbit hole, but when Alice did, she found all sorts of crazy shit, then woke up and found herself back in reality. Just saying 🤷🏻‍♀️

Where are you doing your research?

Are you looking at medical journals? Or are you looking at YouTube?

My baby had a severe reaction on the 3rd baby jabs hospitalised for a week and her half sister also did hospitalised for a week until it happens to u most people aren't aware good luck in your decision

Thank you, this is genuinely reassuring. I didn’t mean party line to find offensive. My community midwife planted the seed of doubt also as when I asked her about the flu and whooping cough she said she isn’t allowed to tell me not to do it but that she didn’t get them. This made me feel like medical professionals who work for the NHS are told what to say rather than giving advice based on their education and experience.

Hi OP. You need to treat all vaccines as individuals. I had an allergy to the meningitis vaccine so I have had no further meningitis vaccines. But I still have flu vaccine every year without any issue. I also had covid jabs, had a bad reaction to the last so decided against getting it while pregnant, but I still got flu and whooping cough.

These vaccines are part of the schedule for a reason and I would strongly advise your little one getting them unless any specific concerns. How was LO after the 8 week ones? Personally I found mine was worst after 8 week ones and the next 2 sets were loads better. If they were going to react really bad they would to the first set as almost all are boosters/repeats! Most babies are a little grumbly and sleepy after vaccines. Catching the disease it protects against is way way worse. Also, don't fall into the anti-vax trap that 'only 1% die with modern medicine' maybe a specific disease 'only' kills 1%, but maybe 5% get a permanent life long disability, and maybe 10% end up in hospital they're so sick. You don't want to be in hospital with your baby needing spinal taps, ventilation, IVs etc. And the NHS certainly can't cope with the demand if lots of parents don't take up vaccine so lots end up in hospital 'even if' with the care few 'actually die'.

I’ve been vaccinating babies and children (and adults for that matter!) for a very long time and have never seen a serious reaction any more than a febrile convulsion (scary but not serious or damaging).

I’ve also never seen a baby with polio, or a toddler die of measles.

Thank you for the replies. For those asking about why I feel it is a ‘party line’ I do not mean this to sound offensive to those who work in heath care and it’s perhaps clumsy wording. What planted the seed is I had a discussion with my community midwife about the flu and whooping cough vaccine when I was pregnant as I was worried given my reaction to the covid one. She told me that midwives HAVE to tell mothers to get it but that she didn’t.

The NHS have decided to start vaccinated against chicken pox.

I got both of mine fully vaccinated BUT I was very anxious about reactions so i completely understand. Have you looked up the alternative? So for example measles symptoms and outcomes if yoir little one catches it? Might be good for you to compare vaccines outcomes with illness outcomes

Put it this way OP.
The NHS is on its arse. It's skint and has staffing shortages left, right and centre.
They wouldn't invest money and resources on something this big if it wasn't worthwhile.

@ElaineMBenes thats true also.

Currently, a child will have approximately £500 worth of vaccines before starting school. Not including the nursing and admin costs. We wouldn’t do that on a national level if it wasn’t worthwhile and cost effective.

OP I totally understand how you're feeling, my baby is due their 1 year vaccinations but is almost 14 months as they have repeatedly had sickness, ear infections and been on antibiotics and ive been advised not to get them when baby is sick. Ive booked them now as I feel the risk of getting the vaccine is much lower than the risk of getting a preventable disease such as measles or Polio.

Also watch out when researching online - the algorithms will feed you more of what you are looking for. I had a friend during lockdown who went down a very deep rabbit hole and was definitely in the arena of conspiracy Bill Gates microchip level, sending me videos of the massive impact on health wear a mask would do etc. As soon as I watched one of the videos she shared I was bombared with similar.

Look at proper research, look at stats and figures about how the diseases can have an impact. I am pro vaccine but then my mum nearly died of polio in the mid 50's so have a real connection to why they are a positive.

Problem with this discussion on here is that anyone could say anything.

I've been on here since 2007 with loads of name changes.

I'm a physio married to a pharmacist. All kids fully vaccinated, and he did hundreds of covid vaccines.

Or am I lying?

The person who has posted as a GP might be lying.

Someone coming on saying their child had a terrible reaction might be lying.

There used to be a board on here titled vaccinations.

Iirc it was removed as every discussion would go the same way. They always do.

I worked in a home for people with learning disabilities. There were some adults there who had caught measles as a baby and had been seriously disabled as a result.

In my job now I see older people who caught polio as children. They're all 70+ as you just don't see it any more (in the U.K.)

Thankyou vaccines!

You could look at the JCVI website. Lots of information there including who the people who make the decisions are, their code of practice and minutes of their meetings. It might provide some reassurance about how the “party line” is decided.

https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/joint-committee-on-vaccination-and-immunisation#publications-and-statements

So I break up the immunisations - I give one at a time and as babies, it made the world of difference! No fevers, no grumpiness and no side effects. They don't like to do it as they say its hard for parents to keep track etc and there's no hard evidence to say it's better on the babies; however my first born seemed so upscuttled after his eight week old ones that I went down a rabbit hole of research and found an article on the Guardian that suggested this approach. I bought it up to the nurse and she admitted it's easier on them/ for the parents, but a bit of a nightmare administration wise. I insisted on it for my others and vaccinations have been a breeze!

That said, I gave both to my three year old at the same time - just wanted to get that one over with as he was smart enough now to remember and not likely to want to go back the next week!

For the one year I do two at a time so we only go back twice.

I think that strategy depends on vaccines. I know lots who did for MMR with premature babies etc and worked really well. But I was surprised when I got my whooping cough when pregnant and realised it was actually tetanus, diptheria, polio and whooping cough. I asked why and she said it was because whooping cough is very poor as a vaccine by itself and you get much more protection from whooping cough giving as part of the bigger vaccine.