Both my kids are still up-please don't judge me.

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

I've been having real.problems getting my boys to sleep recently, it's sometimes past 11 when they drop off. They're only 5 and 2 so I really feel they need more than this. (I've posted about it before). Normally they're running in and out of the lounge and I end up getting shouty because I need some down time (single parent here). Tonight I let them take the kindle fire into their bedroom and they haven't been into the lounge once. They're still both wide awake but at least it's been peaceful.

I'm wary that I'm starting down a slippery slope but I really don't know how to cope with these late nights.

Some wise people will be here shortly to help you and give advice.

I didn't want to read and run.

What is their day time routine like? Perhaps you could start their bed time routine a bit later than normal at first? Then start bringing it earlier? Probably useless advice but I'm just trying to think of something!

Also could rewards work? Perhaps sticker charts or something? With a bigger reward at the end of the week?

Or getting the 2 year old to sleep first, then the 5 year old? So perhaps they are less likely to keep each other awake?

What time do they wake up, do they nap in day, and what time is bed time supposed to be?

Hi I don't want to read and run either. Bed time at this time of year has been a challenge with all three of my DC.
Are they getting enough sleep overall. IMO the amount of sleep is more important than the hours it takes place. In other countries it is common for children to be up late but they would have a nap in the afternoon. Perhaps your children just suit a different routine.
I wouldn't worry too much about the slippery slope either. Do what you need to. When they are teenagers you will have a very different view. Trust me.

What is the rest of their routine like? How many sleeps are they getting in 24 hrs? Is your five year old at school?

Do they share a room?

What have you tried so far?

My older child has always slept easily but my youngest was a bit of a nightmare. I spent many evenings lying with her in the dark until she fell asleep through boredom! I'm not sure how that would work with two kids though unless you could work on the 2 year old first with a proper routine of bath/book/bed while five year old watches a DVD. Then work on the five year old.

What time is bedtime, what routine do you have for the 2 year old?

I was going to say mine are still apparently settling down but they are 13 & 11...

What is your bedtime routine?

I sit outside my DS's door MNetting until he goes to sleep. Most of the time knowing I'm there is enough to keep him in bed. When he's being a bugger then I sit in his room instead. Would this work?

2 year old is up at 6 most days, I have to wake the 5 year old up at 7:30 to get him ready for school. Neither naps. 2 year old goes to bed at 7 normally, 5 year old at 7:30. I've tried making it later but it doesn't make any difference. I'm at my wits end but it does seem to be a common problem at the moment. I did wonder if it was because my split with their father has been fairly recent, but this has only started in the last week or two.

It is probably light related.

It doesn't sound like they are getting enough sleep (I'm a big believe in sleep!) but it also sounds like it is recent enough that you can break the habit!!

Do they have black out blinds? Have you tried lying with them and shushing if they get noisy etc?

I let my ds' have the ipad for a while then I take it away and say they're allowed to watch cartoons in bed as long as they're in their own bed and they're quiet it can stay on. It seems to work for mine they are 8 & 5. 9/10 they fall asleep or are at least quiet. By 10ish I turn it off they've already settled by then and if not asleep will generally turn over at this point and go to sleep. The light nights and early mornings definitely don't help even with black out blinds. In winter they're usually asleep much earlier.

Those wake ups sound fine to me. I'd say 7ish bedtime is fine too. Get yourself double black out blinds to shut all the light out of their room. Mine are 5&3 and asleep by 7/7.30 and up by 6/7am

2 year old is still wide awake and I know if I go in to take the kindle from him all hell will break loose. As a strategy it worked really well for the 5 year old but not the 2 year old.

Do they rub off on each other keeping each other awake? If the 5yo is easier to settle try settling them 1st and keep the 2yo away in the lounge or even in your bedroom so they can't be tempted to play with each other. Separating them might make it easier to get them settled at least if only 1 goes down easy enough you've only got 1 to contend with. Do whatever you need to do to get them to settle whether it be tv kindle bottle books don't be worrying about bad habits they can get sorted later on. Good luck

If my two are winding each other up I put one in my bed and move them when they are asleep.

I don't think giving them technology is the solution. Are their bedrooms completely dark from 7/8 when yo want them asleep? I think that's important, black out blinds plus curtains.

It sounds like their lives have had a big upheaval lately. Maybe an absolutely consistent bedtime routine would help - and one that they do together. Mine are three years apart but they've always gone to bed together. We have a very consistent routine of bath and pjs on by 7:15, half an hour of cbbc / CBeebies, then teeth, and in bed for 8pm, stories and lights out by 8:30 (we are in France, everything runs a bit later than the UK re. Bedtime) the bedroom is dark, quiet and very boring - no screens, just books stories and cuddles. It's a wind down time and a very clear signal that it's time to sleep. We have a very clear rule that they do not get up again once in bed, and I stay in their room (MNing on the sofa bed) until they are asleep. I know you crave adult time, but maybe devoting some extra hours to establishing some new, clear rules would help in the long run?

Using a kindle fire or iPad at night is very bad for sleep. Studies have shown that the light emitted really inhibits th brains ability to sleep. So ...although it works to keep them still they will find it harder to get off to sleep. ..

Also....I think in the long run it will lead to the expectation of more stimulus at bedtime...we all need to have a calming routine in the evening adults and children alike

It's so tough if you are on your own but I think you need really strict rules and evening routine..

Have a time the telly goes off then bath or straight to bed. ..I find bath helps wind them down. .. let them splash about for ages ..maybe at this point yout should have food and wine to keep u going so tempers don't fray

Then into bedroom and one in absolutely not coming out or downstairs ....They will get used to that rule. ..its really better for them in the long run

What about making the bedroom extra cozy and they get some new books etc

If they share can the 5yo go to sleep in your room and you move him to his own bed just before you go to yours? Two of my sons share a room well but just cannot fall asleep together. If my youngest is still awake at the elders bedtime we do this