Why can nurseries not just tell you when a space will come available?

[houseargh]

Of course I understand that they can't know about unplanned drop-outs when people move area or whatever, but those would only result in places opening sooner rather than later. Surely it's possible to say, on the basis of the children currently in the nursery, their ages, and the current waiting list, when a place will next become available for eg. a 2 year old. Am I missing something?

I mean, I guess by being vague they get excess people paying the deposit in the hopes that a space comes up, and this is a way to make money. But given the shortage of childcare spaces anyway, and the level of stress involved with moving and trying to find a space at short notice, would a straight answer be so hard?

Rant over.

I think the only certainty they have is lots will leave in the summer (Augustish) due to starting school.

I understand your frustration, but think it's more complicated then "we have x children, who will leave on y". They could make a guess based on when the current kids reach school age, but what about the ones that go to school based nursery a year early, or whose parents change jobs, or who are summer born and defer school entry. Or a part time kid, who later goes full time. There's a lot of variables.

Our nursery also prioritises babies with siblings already there - so you could want a space for next Jan, but if I have a baby in the meantime and have a child there already and want the space from next March they’d give me priority.

It will also depend on what days people want. A child leaving may attend 2 days a week. Those two days may then just get allocated to existing children who have been waiting for extra days, rather than opening up a new 2 day space.

Well, there's generally a few spaces generated at the start of each school year but obviously that's along way away. Until then, how would they know!

Our nursery move children between rooms when they reach certain developmental stages. So they will move out of the baby room when they are walking; out of the toddler room when they are talking and down to one nap. There's a child who is 3.5 but still in the 2-3yo room because she can't settle in preschool. There are a few taking deferred entry to Reception.

Must be a nightmare to plan and for new entries but it works well for the children on roll.

It depends how and when they move children. And if a current family would like to change days they'll prioritise them over an unknown entity.

It is really annoying though.

Because there are so many variables and moving parts. I think it must be a nightmare! We were able to skip waiting list for DD2 as DD1 already goes, some kids leave at 3 to go to school preschools, some want to add extra hours when funding comes through, some defer entry to primary so will be there an extra year. I honestly don't know how they juggle it all!

I own a Nursery and with the exception of preschool children moving to reception, we have no way of knowing when a child will leave.
And the preschoolers occupy a specific space, so when they leave, the only room with vacancies would be the 3-4 year old room.

They will obviously know roughly when children are moving to the next rooms, but a large number are moved based on ability and social circles rather than a specific age - and we have a transition policy where the move is gradual and based on a child's comfort level, rather than immediately moving them at a set age.

In short - unless a parent has handed in their notice, a place in the younger rooms is based on when the other children are ready to move on, and when the children in the room "below" (eg. Baby room to toddler room) are ready to move up.
As this is done on the child's individual needs, we can't give specific dates.

Thanks all - these are all good points. AFAIK our current nursery moves based on age (though as DD is still in the baby room / hasn't been through a move yet, I might have just been assuming this incorrectly). I didn't realise it was common practice to move between rooms based on other factors, and can see this introduces lots of uncertainty.

General gnashing of teeth regarding the shortage of spaces and impossibility of finding one at short notice, but I guess we all knew that already this is why people move house before the baby is born, not after Will direct my rantiness elsewhere!

Waiting lists can be nuts in some places. Our village only has two nurseries and both have waiting lists of two years currently 😬 I had to tell them I was expecting DD2 the day of my 12-week scan so they could work out a place for her for next year.

I found this infuriating too and it took a while for me to understand. It basically came down to all of the reasons mentioned above. I ended up being lucky and, having thought I was going to be a SAHM and then looking for childcare at quite short notice when DC1 was 15mths, was able to take the space of a similar aged child whose mum had gone back to work when their child was 12mo and then decided it wasn't what they wanted. It took a year before I was able to get the days I wanted tho.
When on mat leave with DC2, we decided we'd have a nanny when I went back to work and so gave notice for both DC1 and DC2 (who hadn't started but was on the wait list). That plan fell apart and I ended up ringing nursery in a panic expecting to be told they'd filled the place but, as it was just before the summer holidays (so they knew most children would be off at some point and that there would be a clear out from the pre-school room), they made space. I think their decision was largely influenced by the fact I paid fees by direct debit and that they cleared each month. Perhaps naively, I was surprised to find out how many of my seemingly affluent friends had overdue nursery fees. And DC1 and her little group of friends were advanced so could be bumped into the pre-school room earlier than they might have been which created space in the toddler room so some moved into that from the baby room making space for DC2.

OP most nurseries prefer full time attendees - if that helps. We're moving and have two children who'll be attending full time so the (relatively small) nursery have said they'll do what they need do to fit us in

Because they will prioritise differently. If you want your child to go there full time, all year round, you would likely be a higher priority to them than someone who just wanted part time or funded hours. It could also be based on staff required. Some will also prioritise based on siblings, staff, linked places or children in care etc.

Generally though, most spaces will be available in September and after that it’s not that likely they will have any better guesses than you about when a space will become free and whether that space is full time or part time.

Thanks all - she goes full time, year round already and that is what we're looking for - so we're as good as it gets customer wise. That's also why it will be fairly catastrophic if we cant find anywhere! The search continues...

Very frustrating for you, but it's almost impossible for them to know (and unlikely they will put time and effort into working out the system - would take ages). I haven't read other posts, so sorry if I'm repeating....

Lots will leave august in time for school, and then they will try and shift all kids up a room but won't always make the space they need depending on ages.

Also not all kids go 5 days, so no way to know which ones will leave freeing up which days and therefore which kids on the waiting list will be able to join....

Very frustrating for parents

At the nursery we used, they actually preferred not to have full time children. It seems counter intuitive but, as 90% or more were part time, it meant they had to come up with extra activities for the two or three full time children.
For example, if they were doing a craft activity linked to Mothers' Day or Diwali or something, they would do it three times to capture all of the children and might have two options so that those who ended up doing it twice could do something different the second time. Those full time kids would already have done it on the Mon & Tues so they had to come up with totally different activities for the rest of the week.
They also slightly struggled with the full time children who might love certain days when their part time friends were in but then be a bit lost on the other days when their friends weren't there.
The nursery was part of a small group and at one of the other nurseries they had the opposite problem as 90% of the children were full time so they would then find it a hassle having to do the craft activity again at the end of the week for those who only came in then and those children found it harder to make friends as the others were together so much more.
I know all of this as a friend's DC was full time and never totally settled at the nursery we used so the manager advised her to move her DC to the other nursery were most kids were full time and the DC were much happier.
Also, if most children are part time and you want full time, you need two children (or more) to leave to free up a spot for you.

Our nursery does wrap around for school aged kids and holiday club so those starting school often still use nursery before 9 and after 3 which would still take up a place as not many just want 9-3 in a nursery.

Posted too soon so they can't count those as leaving in august as many won't leave altogether when they start school

They absolutely should be able to tell.you.
Most nurseries use management software theses day.
I am able to look at the spaces I have in my nursery right into the future.
This assumes all children stay until the end of September of the year they go to school.
I can easily tell you how many spaces I have in each room on any given day.

And we will not take a booking fee from someone if we can't offer them a place.

Obviously, occasionally extra spaces come up, if people move house, cgane working circumstances etc, but apart from that it's pretty accurate

I didn't know that some nurseries charged deposits.

When we were looking, they told us when they'd be likely to have space and then we put our name on the list to start then? They didn't ask for a deposit and seemed to be able to tell us quite accurately when spaces would come up based on children's ages.

Children need to be developmentally ready to move up, then they have a transition period (start off with visiting the new room, stay a bit longer then gradually increase this).

How long it takes for them to transition to the new room depends on each child, their temperament, how easily they adapt to changes etc.

This is in the best interest of the children and I have never worked in a nursery that just moved the young child up based only on their age. That would be completely inappropriate for young children under the age of five.

I feel you pain. I applied for my DC to go to a local nursery ran by the local authority when they are 2. I applied when he was 18 months old and they haven’t even looked at his application yet let alone let me know if they have space or not!

Because parents change jobs, hours, days, shifts.
Because older siblings start school and the children go to a childminder that does wrap around care.
Because of parents taking maternity leave, parental leave and being made redundant.
Because of deferred school starts for summer babies.

Our nursery must be in the minority, they can tell you how many spots are available and when they will come up. Ie based on when kids move up to different rooms etc.