Child coming home dirty

[chunkyrun]

Just to be clear I am not a poo troll. My son has come home with messy pants. Mentioned to staff, they said they would check him. Came home again with messy pants. Spoke to key worker. Said kids just go to toilets by themselves. They can't hear if he shouts them. He's 3.5 he goes to the toilet independently but does need some help cleaning himself up. This has only been a recent issue. Precovid this never happened, but now they've moved things round ext. is this the norm?

Bump

Can you tell him to let a teacher know he is going for a poo before he goes, so they're aware he's in there and will need help cleaning up?

At 3.5 many children will be in school nursery and going to the toilet independently with toilet areas within the nursery so no need to ask. Does he attempt to wipe at home? Things like passing balls between legs games help children to extend their reach.....some slight soiling is not that unusual even up to 5 and 6 years. As pp says can you encourage him to ask for help?

Teach him to wipe his bum and accept its not going to be perfect. He can learn to do it. Encourage him to he independent with it. Teach him at home.

It's so little isn't it? They can't reach properly. Our nursery didn't help if they were out of nappies due to safeguarding but they could change nappies on smaller ones. Checked their policies and it said they would give help according to ability. It was important to me because DD had got a urinary infection from her previous nursery. See what your nursery's policies are.

I’d say that’s not right, especially the part about the staff being unable to hear if they shout. Surely this is a big safeguarding issue, if they cannot hear what’s going on with multiple children in the toilets. As a childminder, I follow the same EYFS as a nursery, which states that children must be in sight or hearing at all times. The children are still so little, as much as we teach them independence, they still need help sometimes and that’s ok! I’d personally take it further if they aren’t listening to you speaking to them. Is there a manager you can email so they’re aware and also there’s a paper trail if you need/want it.

Our nursery didn't help if they were out of nappies due to safeguarding

This is absolutely ridiculous - any nursery unable to meet the basic personal care needs of children should not be open as a nursery. There are plenty of nurseries, both my children went to one, who deal with children's personal care needs and who openly stated, 'this is our job.' That nursery got rated excellent in all areas by the Inspectorate.

It just beggars belief that we have created a society where we think it is normal and acceptable for young children to be left with shit on them due to 'safeguarding'.

@Carouselfish
Oh how awful! What happened if a child had a poo/wee accident?
I've been a nursery nurse/EY teacher for 20+ years.
We always help/ have helped with sorting little ones out.

OP, the children should be in clear earshot of the staff. It's in the EYFS Statutory Requirements.
He will need help at 3.5 years old, to help him gain confidence to gain independence.

Hope you manage to sort it out.

Our nursery didn't help if they were out of nappies due to safeguarding but they could change nappies on smaller ones.

That’s madness. My 2 year old is out of nappies but of course she still needs help wiping, which her nursery help her with.

Many 3.5 year olds are in school nursery with 40 children to 4 staff by 4 they are in reception with 30 children to 2 staff and having to leave the room and go down the corridor to the toilet its our job to prepare them for this....same with all self care like putting trousers and socks on...by reception they have to change themselves for pe and do their own coats up....its sad because expectations have not changed since reception children used to be 5 plus but it is the case.

@jannier the ratio at 3 is 1:8 so you can't have 40 children with 4 staff. My DD was still having a lot of accidents in Reception and needed help. Should she just have stayed home?

@drspouse.
Early years teacher 1 to 13. 3 to 4 year olds.
I teacher 3 assistants....32 children.
2 teachers 2 assistants....38 children.
Ratio changes with 4 to 5 year olds.
It would be normal (27 years and 5 schools experience) for reception children to go to medical where they are encouraged to clean up first before help....if they say they have an accident, if its detected or if they have a known difficulty. They are not routinely checked from nursery upwards unless a known issue.
Some schools would call parent in.
I'm not saying its right .
I've worked with lots of 3 and 4 year olds and some 5 6 and older whos parents always clean them and never ask child to try then check.

I like the pass ball idea! Picked him up today. His pants were bagged up. He went to the toilet and when he came out they could smell he'd not cleaned himself properly. I've not helped at home I clean him. When he's at nursery he just doesn't want to miss out so rushes to and from the toilet. I asked if someone can go in with him and was told they go independently but if they're in a while they go and check. I'm going to try and coach him at home to ask for help if he's going for a poo.

@chunkyrun.
We do a lot of reaching through the legs games...can you get the toy from behind you, pass a ball through legs to others or into a bucket.
Id show him how much paper to use how to fold it etc and encourage a try. Look fold wipe until clean then I check and say does that feel like where you wiped? Some will be resistant to trying just like with tidying up or putting shoes on i just say I'm happy to wait until you try.

[quote drspouse]@jannier the ratio at 3 is 1:8 so you can't have 40 children with 4 staff. My DD was still having a lot of accidents in Reception and needed help. Should she just have stayed home?[/quote]
School nurseries are often a teacher & TA with 26 children.
Ratio is 1:13 with a teacher so 3 adults and 39 children is not unusual in a big setting.

The nursery I work in encourage all children out of nappies to be independent with toileting however they do a pant check 3 times a day (before they wash their hands for meals) to ensure no child has dirty pants throughout the day.

Also, the safeguarding issues is pure rubbish, it’s basic care. We make sure 2 members of staff are present at the time for obvious reasons.

Our 3-5's all go independently if they are capable and confident. We are aware of which children are likely to have accidents or not clean up properly and will check them after they've been to the toilet to make sure they have managed. Those who we know won't manage we will go to the toilets with them and wait in the area until they are done.

Things have improved. Coached Leo to ask before he goes and now staff go check on him. They encourage him to try and clean himself first, then they check and help if needed.

Sometimes it is not always possible for staff to attend to every child at any given moment for example if they had a mixed age range of 2-5 year olds and 4 staff if one staff member is supervising snack and another is sorting a first aid incident, 1 member of staff doing activities with children 1 dealing with a squabble and a child shouts from the bathroom how do you juggle it? Maybe you can help your son by encouraging him at home to clean himself. It is a learning process that all children have to go through. I read a quote somewhere that said 'by doing something for me all you are teaching me is that you can do it better than me' I am a firm believer that children learn best by doing it themselves. You son will now be classed as a school leaver therefore the encouragement to use the toilet is part and parcel of being school ready. If he was 2.5 that is a slightly different matter.

Thankfully my sons nursery doesn't have a mixed age group of 2-5. Being left entirely alone isn't encouragement. However staff are now checking on him and help when needed. We've not had any incidents this week