Nursery and Crapnaps

[JonesCat]

Hi everyone,
I'm new here.
I was hoping for some advice.
My son has just turned one and has been going to nursery for just over a month now. He goes for three morning sessions a week (8-1:30).
When at home he has two naps a day and usually sleeps reasonably well. His bedtime is 8pm which works for us and I'm reluctant to change because my husband doesn't get home until about 7ish.
When he started nursery I noticed that his naps were quite late- about 12, once they finish lunch. they'd tell me every day that he was too tired to eat his lunch (turns out this wasn't the problem and is eating now) and he'd sleep from 12 until about 1:30 when I collected him. Sometimes less but sometimes he had to be woken up when I got there.
I asked if he could be put down before lunch (I put in his file that he has two naps so I'm not sure why they're giving him an 'afternoon' nap. They tell me they try it every day but he won't go down and just goes between 12 and 1:30 for somewhere between 25 min to an hour and a half.
Now the problem is that because he's going so late it's almost impossible to squeeze in a second nap and when I do manage it it's almost a forced nap and I end up holding him for an hour because he's not fast asleep enough to put down.
Even if he has a full hour and a half (which is rare) he still can't go from 1:30-8 without sleep.
I end up with a cranky baby or waste an hour holding him for a nap then struggle to get him down at night.
I just can't see it getting better even if he drops down to 1 nap. If he's being put down at 12 and collected at 1:30 the most he gets to sleep is an hour and a half. Surely that's not enough.
I want to start working more days but feel it's unfair on him to be so tired and cranky. I'm also not sure how hard they try to put him down in the mornings. I get the impression that it's easier for them all to go at once but wouldn't want to accuse anyone of lying.
Any advice? I'm really struggling with his mood in the evenings.

At a year old he'll be transitioning to one longish nap reasonably soon I would have thought.
Could you do the second nap pushing him round in the buggy or drivining?

It's time for him to transition to one nap, he just needs to go to bed much earlier to compensate

Thanks for the replies!
TeaBelle, I can get him down for a second nap sometimes, but because it ends up being so late it messes with his bedtime.
LapinR0se, the problem is that he will never get more than an hour and a half because pick up is 1:30. Also, is there no way around an earlier bedtime? As I mentioned, my husband gets home from work quite late and they'd hardly see each other.
Sorry for all the questions, ftm here

What time does he wake up at the moment? And what time would be the latest he could get up and you still get him to nursery/where you need to be?

Nap transitions are a bit shit tbh and they tens to need quiet time without actually being asleep.

He wakes up at 7 everyday and that's probably the latest he can sleep to and still get there on time. TBH, he sort of put himself into an 8-7 routine so I don't have to wake him on work days.
I can imagine the transition will be shit but I'm mainly worried about the future when he actually transitions to one nap. He'll only get an hour and a half. That can't be enough can it?

Dd (2 this month) has rarely had more than 90 mins, at the very most 2 hours if she's feeling grotty. If you're that concerned you could collect him from nursery later - presumably if you want to work.longer then he could sleep longer there and it wouldn't be a worry.

I know about the husband thing believe me but there is no other way around it. He'll just have to go to bed at 6.45 on nursery days and then your DH can have quality time with him at the weekend (or in the mornings?)

It's not uncommon for children to need a LOT of sleep at this age, my child was sleeping 5pm - 9pm, 10pm - 7pm and 1pm - 2pm at this stage, sometimes longer! I think the answer is to just put your child to bed earlier. I know it will feel rubbish for your husband, I work 7-8:30 3 shifts back to back, I leave the house before my child gets back and return long after her bed time so sometimes I won't see them from Wednesday night until Sunday morning! It is hard, just makes sure he has quality time on his days off.

One hour and a half nap sounds ok to me. Mine sometimes only has 20 mins all day at nursery though, which is definitely not enough but there's not a lot more they can do. Mine goes to bed at 6.30/7. That does mean I don't get to see him on days that I work (I leave too early too) but I make up for it on other days.

Mine has always slept so much less at nursery than at home - partly because there's too much exciting stuff/noise and partly because I can't expect them to work as hard as I will at home to keep her asleep for a 'full' nap (or two naps when she was younger). Nurseries are definitely better when your child falls into the one nap after lunch schedule - which is far from ideal if you are collecting at 1.30. I know how tough it is, mine is 2YO and still a nightmare when she hasn't napped properly!

Thanks guys,
The only way I could pick him up later is if he did a whole day session. The morning session ends at 1:30.
I can see everyone's point about putting him to bed earlier but it's not something I want to do unless he really needs it. Besides, he's always slept for 11 hours at night. It would make for a super early morning and he'd just have the same problem but at a different time of day

I think he will be going to one longer nap now. Could you increase your hours so that he stays all day and sleeps after lunch instead of goes more days

Bedtime at 8pm is quite late for a one year old, I agree with pp and think you should put him to bed earlier.

Try and help him drop the morning nap, so he has an early afternoon nap after you collect him (this might end up being in the pushchair/car where he falls asleep on the way home). It is possible to have a slightly later bedtime, my DD did it, but changing from 2 naps to 1 is hard.

HSMMaCM
That just might work. Not something to do immediately but once the morning nap is gone it might be the best way to go.
It's nice to hear your little one had a slightly later bed time too. It's never adversly effected my lo and I'm quite keen he sees daddy before going to bed. I understand that someday he might have to get up earlier and go to bed earlier but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

My daughter went to nursery from 8 months old, for 2 days a week, (now 17months) and around the time she was transitioning would sometimes have 1 nap, lasting just 25mins! or not having a second nap until 4/4.30.

I did have to be quite clear with the nursery, that it wasn't strict, but she needed to be put to nap at a certain time, (before 11, their lunch time, in the morning) and no later than 3.30pm in the afternoon as it was affecting her bed time. Honesty is best with them from my experience, so they understand how it's affecting the rest of your DS's day.

As for the later bedtime, DD goes down at 7pm most nights now and sleeps until from 5.30am - 8am, but bedtime was about when she needed to go to bed rather than strictly at a certain time when she was settling into nursery - he's only been there a month, DD has just started getting into a nursery and home sleep routine in the last 2 months so 6 months after starting.

I would agree with other posters however that a regular 8pm bedtime is too late, just for the sake of DH seeing him. My DH takes DD to nursery on the days I'm working, at 7.20am, and doesn't get him until 11pm, so he sees her a total of 30mins each day, if that, two days a week.

Could your DH take DS to nursery or get him up and give him his breakfast to spend the time with him in the mornings instead of it being after he's home from work on those days??

I would just put him down after pick up. He could sleep 1.45-3.45/4.15 or whatever suits. It will be hard for a week or two but they soon adjust.

Thanks Outnumbered. I guess I sort of assumed that because he seems settled that he is settled. But I suppose I haven't given him very long.
Potofyogurt, I think I will have to work towards that 😊
Just out of interest, what is so bad about his bedtime? Surely, as long as he's getting enough sleep it doesn't really matter? He naturally gets 11 hours a night. It's not like I'm waking him up at 7 or anything.
It's a genuine question because I hadn't thought about it before.
It's not just about hubby seeing him but about him seeing his daddy and spending quality time together. At the moment they have a sweet little routine which my son gets really excited for. Hubby could take him to nursery in the mornings but they'd both have to be up a lot earlier (nursery is close to my work and the opposite direction to hubby's). Come to think of it he'd have to drop him off before they officially start their morning sessions in order to get to work on time.
I just think, why should their time together consist of a hurried morning full of tears because ds doesn't want to go to nursery when they have so much fun in the evening?

My DD used to go to bed after Dh got home from work when he was on different shifts. I would only say from that experience that because she hadn't seen him all day, she was getting a little wound up in the last hour before bed and ending up not sleeping as well/not settling the same as at weekends when it wasn't the daddy's home hour. However that could be to do with both hers and DHs personalities and if you have a good routine, I understand your thinking.

I also understand about the morning suggestion too, our nursery is in opposite direction to my work, but on the way to DHs... But he takes her in a morning, then comes back home for a few hours before doing the late shift oddly enough. If it would be rushed and tears then obviously a no go.

Personally, 8ish is a little late for us now also as with one nap she needs to be in bed by the 7pm mark as she's tired by then, and I feel it's setting up nicely for when she's older, in line with other children her age and the times they go to bed. 7pm is a usual time for those right up to school age from what I'm aware. :)

From my experience 1 and a half hours is too short a time to limit a nap to. It's fine if that's how long he wants to sleep, but it isn't long enough to be the maximum he can have. Also, in reality, it would be more than 70 or 80 mins because of him settling himself, then waking him up for your arrival etc.
I look after a 2 and a half year old now who sleeps 12 hours at night and still has a 2-3 hour nap every afternoon. She gets really upset and cranky if she doesn't get long enough so I always try and accommodate and let her have as long as she needs.
I think you need to have a proper chat with nursery and try and come to a solution. Could you pick him up earlier and do the one nap yourself, or pick him up an hour later so he can finish the nap, or speak to them and tell them that you would really still like him to have a nap in the morning and if they can't accommodate this then you might have to look elsewhere.
Taking his naps down to one a day and limiting the length of that nap all at the same time sounds like too much and I would worry how it is effecting his development if he is tired for a few hours before his nap and a few hours before bedtime... those few hours are all times that he could be learning and exploring with 100% efficiency!

The thing is, even if you get nursery to do the two naps, you are going to be faced with this problem in the future when he transitions to one (which will happen naturally in the next few months). When that happens your options seem to me to be:

1.) Accept 1 1/2 hour nap and possibly sleep deprived child (miserable for you so not great)
2.) Get nursery not to put him down and nap when he gets home (possibly some misery for nursery and possibly will be an issue down the line of the nap being too late in the day/too close to bed).
3.) Pick him up later and let him sleep longer at nursery (but if that means a full day of nursery that's an expensive solution!)

2 seems the most sensible to me. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with an 8-7 sleep pattern by the way. I think 8 sounds late to lots of people but its not really different from 7-6 and nobody would bat an eyelash at that. If it works for you then great (and be thankful your child sleeps till 7!) Just bear in mind that as he gets older and drops nap he may need longer at night and that will probably have to be achieved by earlier bed rather than later morning.

Naps depend on the child. My (just) 2 year old is down to one nap for 45mins / an hour a day now. I find he sleeps later at nursery because he's too interested in all the fun stuff going on to sleep in the mornings.

But he's not getting enough sleep on nursery days, you said so yourself. He needs earlier bedtime those days.

or you scoop him up from nursery nap and let him continue it in the car and at home.

you're putting your husband before your child. you're not prepared to change what you're doing despite the advice here.