What the fuck happened to wages?

[HauntedBungalow]

Minimum wage from this April is £24k, give or take. So why am I seeing graduate jobs advertised at that level, like we're still in 2005? Middle management, upper tier admin roles too, all at or around the same, maybe scaling the dizzy heights of £2-3k more but not by much. Something terrible has gone on with wages in the UK throughout this century. The unions like to say it's only public sector workers that are affected but it's not, it's across the board. What's the cause? Currency devaluation? Lack of productivity type investment? Hyperfocus on asset investment? Something else?

The country is bankrupt and not enough people are working

Because overall productivity is low, and that means there is limited revenue to pay wages.

And graduates are unproven. A starting salary is just that. Graduates may have a degree but they still need to prove they turn up on time, reliably, every morning, can get on with their peers and deliver quality work.

But if there weren’t enough people working surely companies would have to pay more to recruit and retain employees?

If there’s lots of people working then that’s more people to pay so an already higher wage bill, plus no reason to pay someone more if they can be cheaply replaced.

Meant to quote @Sunnywalker

“In work” benefits mean that the government picks up the slack and employers don’t need to pay more…

In work benefits have obfuscated the situation, for sure. Families with children under 18 have had the disposable income even through the years of wages running short. They'll feel it now though, the ones that went on tax credits back in the day - once those kiddies leave school it all stops.

People commented this on a thread about the minimum wage increase before and were shouted down as out of touch elitists not caring about the common man, etc.

But essentially many companies/organisations don't make enough money to give all staff large wage increases every year. Legally mandated (and proportionately large, in the last 4 years the minimum wage has gone up nearly 50% - find any other job with a similar increase - as a comparator my fairly low level CS job has had a 3% increase over the same period) increases to minimum wage means any money that is available has to go to the lowest paid workers, which in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but, after several years, is now leading to the situation you see, whereby everything above minimum wage hasn't increased commensurately, so you get supervisors getting paid pennies more than the staff they are managing, and you will get paid more per hour on the till at Aldi than in your first few years as an ambulance paramedic.

Plus because nearly everyone across the board is paying poor wages, everyone can get away with it rather than having to put up their wages to get good applicants - the only alternative is usually leaving the UK, which lots of professionals are doing.

Long or even medium term this is going to become a huge issue, as many people will just stop applying for the more stressful, responsible or inconvenient jobs if there is no/minimal financial incentive, and the most able will leave the UK completely.

It's crazy
I get people saying oh find a better paying job (I earn min wage) so I start looking and for say 26k they're wanting 3 years job experience, a degree, management experience and a whole host of other stuff

Did find one better paid but didn't apply as it's full time on screens (call centre type) and only 1 break a day of 1hr lunch which would be knackering

I have a degree but that's it

Like this one
25k a year

@faithbuffy yes that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. That's an insane brief for the price. People were earning more in office manager jobs 20 years ago. Like, actually earning more hard cash, not just more in real terms.

@latetothefisting wages have been in the doldrums for a lot longer than five years though - the minimum wage rises just highlight how bad every other wage is. Agree that it has a disincentive effect on a micro level - like, there's no point in going for promotion if all you're going to see for the extra stress and responsibility is a Sainsbury's meal deal. I wonder how that plays out in broad trends.

One of the issues is that profit is largely going overseas - platforms such as Airbnb and Ubereats mean that restaurants struggle to make a profit and look for as cheap labour as possible.just to keep their heads above water I think that the West has been happy to buy things cheaply from developing countries but again means money is flowing out rather than being spent locally.

Employers can only pay as much as profit allows and if the employment market doesn't pressure them to pay more they won't. This might make sense on an individual business level but when multiplied access the country it means customers are spending less.

The minimum wage is far too high. You can be a totally unskilled inexperienced person getting £24k a year. This means that there isn’t the money there to properly pay the experience and/or educated in their field.

You can be a totally unskilled inexperienced person getting £24k a year

But they are doing a job that needs doing and they need to earn enough to live.

It's mad to think £12.50 (?) per hour is too much.

The drivers are usually from overseas and I think there is no real checks... Or NI paid

I think inflation is too high.

@Frostythesnowman1 This is classic divide and rule tactics. Minimum wage is not the reason you aren't getting paid enough. Billionaire CEOs and shareholders hiving off massive profits are a big part of the reason. That and economic instability caused by things like covid, Trussonomics and Brexit that have left us more vulnerable to food price rises and energy price shocks.

Btw, there is no such thing as an unskilled job - if a job needs doing and is full time, then it should pay a liveable wage. You sound like the type of persons who thinks cleaners and casual labourers are unskilled.

The issue is years of suppressed wage growth which hasn’t occurred with the minimum wage to the same extent. If you’re working full time on minimum wage, I don’t think it’s controversial to say you should be able to live on that wage.

The issue is where a grad role might’ve previously had a premium over NMW, companies haven’t adjusted what they pay those roles at anywhere close to the rate the minimum wage has increased. And it affects alls levels. If you pay grads more, you have to pay junior staff more, then experienced staff etc to ensure you maintain your internal equity.

Min wage used to be a lot less... It's rise 40% in 6 years

44 pence was the average price of a pint of milk in 2019. It’s currently 65 pence, but did peak at 70 pence.
Source: ONS

I think any frustration you might have about the rise of minimum wage is misguided.

Don't drink milk?

Wages haven't increased 40% for those on say the average wage so people think that those on the bare minimum of pay are getting considerable more money in their bank account (even though it's not stretching as far) and those on say the average UK wage of £35k haven't increased..... Unless everyone's had a 40% pay increase?

Perhaps worth reading my prior quote…

And regarding milk, it’s an item from the basket of goods which acts as a generic indicator of inflation on household items. Milk isn’t the only item that has increased in price, therefore it’s representative.

Greed.

This.

Or in short, greed.

How on earth do you expect them to live, rent or buy a home, travel to work, maybe student loans, maybe support a family, and have the basic necessities? Take home it’s about £1500 a month, less it you’re paying into a pension which you absolutely need to do as the state pension will dwindle to nothing in the future.

I am for the increasing of minimum wage. Everyone should be able to pay their basic bills on a salary. The cost of living is much more than it was five years ago.

The rest of wages stagnating is a separate issue.

So inflation is the issue and not min wage increase?

Min wage is the min an employer has to pay you. If shows that the inflation of this country is crazy.

So inflation is the issue and why the min wage has increased 40% on 2019 rate?