Oestrogel and insomnia

[MissDraper]

My perimenopause journey started about five or six years ago. I probably started perimenopause at 37/38. I’m 49 now and have been in full menopause for around two years.
I’ve been on HRT for five or so years. Initially, it was a great help and got rid of lots of the symptoms. I still never felt quite normal, though and did end up on fluoxetine for a while, which I must say did save my life.

I’ve never been great at sleeping, probably years off nights but perimenopause made that worse, HRT did seem to improve it a little bit. But over the last two years, my sleep has gradually got worse. I put that down to being in the menopause and not the oestrogen, so I increased the dosage. It didn’t seem to be helping, I’d get one full night every few weeks.
I decided to try the oestrogen gel over the last few months, and on it only been getting 2 to 4 hours sleep a night. I felt like I was going insane. I have for a long time now had an underlying wired feeling & anxiety, even though I’m not actually anxious. My heart rate’s fine, my blood pressure’s fine. It’s just like there’s an internal buzz.
So I decided to stop the oestrogen and see what would happen. I’ve read a few things on here and on other forums that it may be the oestrogen that’s causing the insomnia or making the insomnia worse.
Having stopped the oestrogen five days ago, I can honestly say I haven’t slept so well in years.
I’m still waking in the night, but there’s no wired feeling, there’s no buzz. I can get back to sleep quite easily. I feel more alert in the day. I feel normal. That’s the only way I can describe it, well clear-headed too.
I can only put this down to the oestrogen.
I did take progesterone, but I had PMDD when I had periods, so that made everything worse. So that wasn’t a solution to the sleep because lots of people suggest that.
I have been given vaginal oestrogen to help combat the localised issues, and hopefully that will solve that.
I’m a little bit worried about my bone health and my cardiovascular health. But I used to run a lot, so I’m going to start taking up running again.
Maybe my journey with oestrogen is over, which makes me very sad.
But God, it’s wonderful to sleep.
Has anybody else out there experienced anything similar? Or come off HRT and felty better?

I'm the complete opposite.
At 52 my sleep went all over the place.
I've used HRT for almost 20 years (with a consultant) and when I've stopped, twice, my insomnia started again in 2 to 3 weeks.

You're right to be worried about your bones because at your age now you are still under the average age of menopause.

The way forwards is to ask your GP for a DEXA scan. (I have them every 2 years, privately.) If they won't refer you (which they should ) you can pay for them- around £200.

Running will help but it won't stop bone loss completely.

You might get away with using a very low dose of estrogen ( 1 pump) and maybe a different sort of progesterone.

Thanks for the reply. You’ve been lucky. I’m an ICU nurse so pretty clued up and well researched on the risks of not taking HRT but the risks of 2 - 4 hours sleep a night are pretty catastrophic too. As for the progesterone, thanks for the advice but in the last five years I’ve tried every single one available, I’ve used utro vaginally, I’ve tried the coil. All of them at some point give me sucidical thoughts.

At the moment I need to sleep. If it so happens I am great off the estrogen then I’ll look into a DEXA. Just out of interest why do you have them 2 yearly if you are on HRT? Are you at particularly high risk?

Sorry to hear you have hit a brick wall with progesterone.
One thing to consider if you could afford private HRT care, sometimes the progesterone dose can be reduced with monitoring for women who are very intolerant.
The NHS suggests DEXA scans every 3 years when there is a bone density issue but some women have to wait 5 years. My bone density before starting HRT was very low, so having regular scans monitoring, especially as improvement is linked to estrogen doses. I have DEXA scans and HRT privately so the monitoring is slightly more often than NHS.

Yes I only took progesterone 3 monthly. Evil awful hormone. I think I’m going to enjoy not having HRT, many women don’t take it. And I think I’ve tried for long enough. Just going to see what happens in the next few weeks. It’s a relief actually. It would be Interesting to see my bone density but I wouldn’t expect it to be poor. I’ve ran excessively most of my life, I walk 3 hours a day, my job is 13 hours on my feet, I eat a really good diet and there’s no family history on either side. My sleep tbh honest is far more important than anything else right now. I’d rather break my hip than have Alzheimer’s or kill a patient a work with a mistake because I’ve not had enough sleep.

Just one thing to mention. Women who run 'excessively' can be at risk because the exercise and lower weight can trigger loss of ovulation and lower bone density. This affects female athletes.

I'm not dismissing your choice to stop HRT but maybe it's worth having a scan for peace of mind if nothing else. You had a very early peri menopause. Nothing lost by making sure all's okay.

Running goof for cardio. Lifting heavy weights (ie so heavy can only manage 5-6 reps good for bone).

I’m sure you’re just trying to help. But I’m not an athlete. If only I was. That would be amazing. And that research is related to women who exercise and have such a low body mass they stop having periods hence low estrogen. I’ve never skipped a period in my entire life until menopause. So the chances of me losing bone mass due to loss of periods from exercise reducing estrogen are 0%.
I posted on here in the hope of finding someone who had a similar experience with insomnia and estrogen and their own outcomes, to feel less alone in my experience. I didn’t expect an insistant lecture on bone density from someone who doesn’t really understand my current difficulties with sleep. I understand this is perhaps because yours isn’t great it’s been your main concern on your menopause journey but it’s not really helping me.

When did you apply oestrogel? It can make you feel a bit wired and jittery if applied pm and can disturb sleep for some. Maybe try first thing on a morning before giving up?

Obviously all the physical activity you do will ensure you are naturally tired which is good but also omit caffeine and alcohol. I know you say you sleep ok without oestrogel so coffee etc won't be the cause but it can all contribute.

Just to add I can't see anyone lecturing you on here, just giving their advice which is what you asked for? Maybe ask mnhq to delete it if it's pissing you off.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, but I applied the gel at 05:15 every morning before work. So that isn’t going to change anything. But I also tried it at night. And in the afternoon. I’ve tried and it’s done with.

I posted a little of my story and asked if anyone had been through the same thing. I perhaps should have added the years of all the the various HRT regimes I’ve tried but it gets a bit dull for others. I have tried tablets, spray, gel and patches. During perimenopause no real issues. Once through to the other side,so
to speak, the oestrogen has made me wired and have incredibly poor sleep.

I take all the supplements I need.
I have great sleep hygiene.
I have two cups of coffee both before 7am
and then no further coffee.
I am exposed to cortisol stimulating activity in the morning and little in the evenings.
On my four days off I am outside for a minmum
of five hours a day and therefore exposed to plenty of natural light.
I do yoga three times a week.
I do everything we are advised to do and still struggle until I stop the oestrogen.

I don’t need to get anything delated. It’s not like I’m going back to it and spending my day reading it over and over. I’m not after advice on bone density issues yet there was three messages about it from someone who had no trouble sleeping on oestrogen. I just want to see if someone may have had the same problems with estrogen and how they navigated that.