Where to live in Paris with DH and 3 DD's

[hellolou]

So, very exciting news is that DH and i will be moving to paris with our three DD's at some point soon. Can't wait - have got such fond memories of paris, but sadly all BC when i lived in a little shoe box in the bastille.

I have read the thread about education which is great and hugely useful. I am hoping that we will be in place for the start of the summer latest ready for the DD's to start school september '09 (2,4,6). Any further pointers on education would be greatly appreciated.

What is most needed though is advice on where and how to set up home. This is a BIG debate in our household at present ...

The argument is simply space in the suburbs versus central. If we stick central what areas can you recommend that have a 'village' type feel to them? If we head out to the 'burbs then again where should we centre our search around as a starting point?

Does anyone have any relocation agents that they would recommend or should we just go with company one / start looking in local press?

questions, questions, questions ...

thanks a million x

you need Anna to advise you...

Yes, you need BonsoirAnna. I'd try bumping this in the morning.

Hi .

Are you going to be sending your children to a French school (state or private/Catholic), in which case you can live anywhere you like and that has reasonable schools, or do you want to send them to a bilingual French-English school. Or something else (international, English-speaking etc)?

And what is your accommodation and school fees budget?

Lots and lots of English-speaking families and bilingual families live around where I do (17th/8th around Parc Monceau) because there is a lovely bilingual school (Ecole Active Bilingue - EaB), a lovely park and lots of large family apartments - and you can live life carless as the pavements are wide and there are lots of shops and amenities and good buses.

hellolou - Congratulations on your news! I love Paris. It would be really nice to help you out.

I think, what you should do, is make a list of your priorities for your life in Paris.

Then people who live in and around Paris can pool their knowledge and perhaps we will find 'your perfect Paris' or maybe something close to it !

And where is work (your DH's and/or yours)?

People tend not to commute as much here as in England and you can live quite close to work here.

right, ok where to start ...

work, at present is just DH and he will be based central / west from what i can gather. he is used to a long commute here (1h35 d2d) so commute is not a massive issue or priority.

schools, we are really keen for the DD's to be brought up in as much of a French environment as possible so at this stage are most interested in immersion classes etc at EaB. However, we do want to check out how easily kids integrate in this way. Am hoping that given they are so young it shouldn't be a problem but would welcome thoughts.

priorities, family friendly area, close to schooling (much more important than being near to office), village feel, parks etc nearby, good links to gare du nord as DD will have to to and fro a bit from london

budget, is up in the air totally. how much square metreage(is that a word?) do you think would be sensible as a minimum for a family of 5 so that we don't get cabin fever? and what is the rental per sqaure metre in the areas that you recommend so we can start to work out budget and affordability?

can't wait to hear you thoughts

a bientot x

On the long commute - even if your DH is used to a long commute in the UK, you will find yourselves quite "out on a limb" culturally/socially if he does a long commute here. So I would try to avoid that. If you want your children to go to EaB or EABJM you won't really be concerned by adaptation classes except for your DD1. What year was she born in? If 2003, she will be going into CP (first year of primary school) and I think that EaB does do adaptation for CP and EABJM doesn't^.

It is probably more "villagey" around EaB and Parc Monceau than around EABJM. It is slightly less expensive to live around Parc Monceau than in the 7th arrondissement, and there are more large family apartments to rent. You ought to get a reasonable three bedroom (5 pièces with 2 bathrooms) apartment in the 17th for 3,000 - 3,500 euros a month - how does that sound? If you have more to spend you can get a bigger place, but availability of apartments over 200 m2 is low.

It is easier to get to Gare du Nord when you live on the Right Bank (ie EaB) than on the Left Bank.

You need to start applying to schools ASAP by the way - we received the re-enrolment paperwork for DD for next year's EaB today, for completion by 15 February, so they will be getting a feel for spaces very soon.

Your children will have every chance of integrating well at EaB. But children learn French at very different rates - there are children in DD's moyenne section class who started in September without a word of French who are now fluent, and there are children who started 18 months ago who still don't really speak. But that can happen in an all French school too.

thank you for all that.

am in dialogue with the schools and get the impression that we need to get a move on with that so we will try and get the ball rolling when we are in paris next week. DD's are dob 2002, 2004 and 2006 so in the UK system are preschool, reception and year 1.

monceau area sounds great but we don't know it so will take a wander next week. budget sounds about right too. would you advise relocation company or going direct through agencies in the local area?

because we are in it for the long term i hope that taking the plunge with immersion / french system will pay off, if not immediately at some stage ...
x

In September 2009, your DDs will be going into 10ème (CE1), Grande Section and Petite Section.

So your eldest will be in adaptation and your younger two won't, but will be thrown in the deep end in maternelle. Your DD3 will have nothing to worry about if she is in EaB Monceau (it's very gentle, with half-days and half-size classes only in petite section) but at EABJM there is no petite section so she would have to go to a local French school for a year.

Your DD2 will have the toughest time of the three because she will only have one year of maternelle to learn French in before going into primary. You ought to be aware of this - she might need extra tuition.

I've no idea about relocation companies (my DP is a native) so I cannot help you there. I suspect you can just go direct to an agency and DIY pretty efficiently.

Do you want to meet for a coffee and chat next week.?

Also - factor in the cost of a nounou (childcare cum cleaner) as you will definitely need this (you won't need a car) if you live in central Paris with 3 young DDs.

Just one little point about what Anna said - my DD2 was 4.9 and spoke and understood next to no French when we moved back to France. She went into grande section and after 5 months of almost total silence at school she was suddenly fluent by the Feb holidays and has breezed through primary. So don't worry about your middle DD too much, she could well be fine.

At EaB there is currently discussion going on (not very advanced yet) about providing extra French tuition support (though not full adaptation) for children who need it in grande section. But it may be in place from September 2009 - it would be one useful way of using the extra two hours the French maîtresses have for support to pupils in need since last year's reform.

Hopefully they will be fine - am not too worried about it tbh. They are pretty outgoing and DD1 and DD2 are quite close in age so hopefully will be able to bounce off each other a little if it gets tough / confusing at times. how hard can it be???!!! - tee hee - it is me that will be living in total silence, and that will be for longer than 5 months - must dust down the f/e dictionary ...
As an aside, is it quite an even spread between kids who follow french curriculum versus english?
And finally, bonsoiranna, would love to meet for sure, thank you!

still ploughing through all the info on schools. there is A LOT!

one more thing for you please, and this is probably showing my naiveity, but what exactly is the difference between 1) monceau and lamartine, 2) dupleix and suffren? Am i right that they both offer the same thing but are simply on different sites within the overall campus for their respective schools?? do you apply for the site specifically or the school as a whole. and (maybe most importantly) is there a big difference between the different sites and what they offer from an educational and social pov?

thanks a million (again)

I can only comment on EABJM but there's no difference in curriculum AFAIK between Dupleix and Suffren, although Suffren has a CE2 for children who struggle with English and I'm not sure about Dupleix, but I suspect that wouldn't be terribly relevant!

Just realised I only answered one question. I think you apply for just the school at EABJM and socially there's not much difference. Suffren is really lovely, the headmistress is brilliant and obviously cares for all the children. There's a park fairly near to play after school if you live relatively near (don't know about Dupleix) and the children also socialise with children from the local state primaries there.

AFAIK there is no curriculum difference at all between Monceau and Lamartine. However, as Monceau is a much bigger school (three parallel classes at maternelle and five parallel classes at primary level), the English language streams (and all children are streamed for English) are much more homogenous and the Anglophone-Bilingual-Advanced Group at Monceau is composed of children who are all mother tongue or very fluent in English, which is better for Anglophone children.

Anglophone children are, overall, hugely outnumbered by others (Franco-French, other bilinguals and other nationalities). The school is first and foremost a French school. However, the Anglo mothers are very friendly and very active in the Parents Association etc, so you will make lots of friends easily.

CAT me to let me know when you are coming over and when you would like to meet for a chat .

(excuse the daft name - it is a valentine's thing from another thread! )

Like Anna, I think you would really enjoy living somewhere around Parc Monceau. I have a friend who lives in a top floor apartment and it also includes part of what used to be the maids quarters (the rooms right at the top of the building). So in effect her apartment feels like a house. It is the only apartment I have ever seen like this - but it occured to me that something like that would be quite lovely for you! Keep a look out... to see if you spot any apartments arranged like this - it is the only place I have seen like this so it might be very unusual indeed! I don't know.

I thought I would tell you about where I live and the towns around that because you might like to feel a bit more in the know about the 'burbs!

I live in Puteaux - which is a populaire suburb town to the West of Paris but so close to Paris we are on the ligne 1metro line. I think it is a nice place to bring children up as you can have all the loveliness of Paris but the warmth of a small town. With your budget you could live in a house with a garden. There are lots of family events organised by the town hall and it is a very friendly and lively place to live during the day but very quiet at night. The next door town Courbevoie has much the same feel.

Over the bridge from me is Neuilly. It has big apartments, the Bois de Boulogne and is very leafy. I have a few friends who live here. People who live in Puteaux talk of Neuilly as a bit pishy-poshy and unfreindly. However, whenever I am in the area I find it very friendly, fun and beautifully chic! The apartments I have been in have all been modern - not as old and lovable as in the apartments in the 17th - lots of new build - but they are very spacious - there are lots of dog owners in Neuilly - the woods and big apartments are great for dogs if you have one.

Another cute town is Suresnes - Here you start to find more houses and with your budget you could easily have a place with a nice garden in the desirable 'Suresnes Hills'. Living in the Suresnes hills looking across Paris looks rather idyllic to me! A dear friend of mine has found a sort of mini paradise here. As much as I love the idea of your little one being in my dd's class (we are in the process of EaB applying so if you do too there is a 1:3 chance they might be), talking about this friend, her children go to a very good billingual school in St Cloud you might want to look up. She is very happy with it. Which one might that be Anna? I really can't remember the name of it?

Anyway - I must dash - We are going to be very late for the market! Good luck with all your searching!

The Lycée International de Sèvres is the closest thing I can think of to a bilingual school near St Cloud...

One of the big problems with Neuilly for Anglophones is that there are no good international school options. The only English speaking school is Marymount, which is American and très cher. And although you might want to ferry your child from Neuilly to Parc Monceau for primary (and I know parents who do), you and your child will not want to continue with that right until bacc level. And so you will be a bit stymied for school.