Bank obstructing probate application.

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A relative died recently and I am the named executor. It is a simple estate and I have done this before, so am not using a professional to do it.

The issue I am facing is that the relative's bank will not tell me the bank balance at the date of death until I have the grant of probate. I cannot apply for probate until I have details of all my relative's assets. A catch 22 situation.
I am not asking them to release the funds, only for the balance information.
Has anyone come across this before? Is there a solution?
Edited for spag.

This is the point. It would not be an estimate. It would be a wild guess. Which I don't think HMRC would be happy with, especially if it turns out there is a very large sum in the account. They may say I am concealing assets.
He had known for a year that his illness was terminal. He liked moving his money around. The money that was in his bank account 3 years ago could be anywhere now. He may have spent it for all I know. All I can hope is that when I have my appointment with the bank they will be able to help.

And they also charge you interest if the payment it late or if it's inaccurate. Hopefully you will speak to someone more sensible at your appointment. You do have 6 months to get everything together and pay the IHT but that time speeds by.

“They may say I am concealing assets”

are you panicking a bit. I understand but have you spoken to HMRC?

Someone mentioned the banks giving the balances to the solicitors, yeah I believe they will do that because it’s a solicitor and they feel more confident about handing over the information

But I do think you need to find somebody at the bank who knows what’s going on that’s very hard though. It’s terrible that everything is in such a state.

But have you spoken to HMRC and explained the position you are in? They are usually very nice when you speak to them.

Barclays. I have never had any dealings with them before.

Notify the bank: Report the death online via the Barclays Bereavement Support Portal or visit a branch with a death certificate. Barclays will freeze sole accounts and provide a bereavement reference number (starting with BRV). [1] (www.barclays.co.uk/what-to-do-when-someone-dies/), [2] (www.afterloss.uk/guides/barclays-probate-threshold), [3] (legacytrail.co.uk/guides/managing-the-estate/what-happens-to-a-bank-account-when-someone-dies-in-the-uk-payments-frozen-accounts-and-what-gets-refunded)Request balance information: Once notified and verified as the legal executor or administrator, the bereavement team will disclose the account balances and issue an account settlement form. [1] (www.barclays.co.uk/content/dam/documents/personal/miscellaneous/Barclays-Settlement-Details-form.pdf), [2] (mpestateplanning.uk/executor-bank-accounts-why-theyre-important-and-how-to-open-one-in-the-uk/), [3] (https://www.barclays.co.uk/what-to-do-when-someone-dies/)

Got this from the internet OP. I wonder if when you speak in your meeting you'll get a bereavement reference number and be able to get balances. I wonder if the people you've been speaking to think you want the funds which they can't give without grant of probate

Do it via the online portal once you have the reference number. Barclays can definitely give information before GOP, they did for me when I administered my DAunts estate.

To answer a few questions.

I completed the Barclays death notification form online and received a confirmation from the Bereavement Dept with a reference number. Then I received a letter telling me what I needed to send/take to a branch. This includes the GOP. I called the Bereavement Dept and said I needed the balances at Date of Death in order to apply for the GOP. It then that I was told they couldn't release any information without the GOP.
I haven't spoken to HMRC yet.

However if I don't get anywhere at my appointment with the bank I will call HMRC.

Oh goodness. You really are bashing your head against a brick wall aren't you?
It's so clear online that they can give you the balances. Maybe print out what it says online and see what they say when you go in otherwise I'll join you in bashing your head on that brick wall.
HMRC will be fine as they will just charge you interest on the tax bill especially if it's beyond the 6 month mark to pay it. I think before you could be ok but it's frustrating. We will be getting charged £4.55 a day on some outstanding IHT we have to pay on a foreign trust that it's taken us over a year to sort as the other trustee died too so they had to get probate abroad for that person before the trust could be divided up.

@Musicaltheatremum thank you. It sounds as though you have been having more challenging problems.
Today I have been given some information a friend managed to get from the laptop hard drive of my relative and it seems there may not be IHT to pay after all because two of his pensions are the type that die with the recipient unless they had dependents (which he didn't). I still need to get the information from Barclays but it is possible now that the estate may be under the IHT threshold.

I have to contact NS & I and the remaining pension provider tomorrow and hopefully they will be easier to deal with.

Barclays are known to be far from modern and incredibly beurocratic. Sympathies OP.

That's interesting. They were great when I was setting up poa for my dad

It's really easy to apply for the refund if you do overpay the tax.

But you need to submit the IHT400 before you can apply for probate....

COmplain to the CEO - they will have a head office team to deal with CEO complaints who are much more on the ball and should resolve pretty quickly. Set out the situation and attach copies of the death certificate and the will showing you are the executor.

Yet here I am with the issue that the bank let a relative clear out the account, no probate, no consequences. So while I know what was in it on date of death, I don’t have the money or any way of recouping it…

it depends on the bank obviously. While I am happy to hear other banks have more robust protocols in place, it doesn’t reassure that banks just have their own rules.

i am writing to my mp about the issue of probate and how estates are easily defrauded. It works on trust, but if someone decides they just want the money and doesn’t act correctly, there is very little anyone can do.

I have given up on Barclays until my appointment with them on 14th September.
Today there was worse news from NS &I. They have a backlog of several months dealing with customer death claims. They will provide a valuation before I get the GOP but it will be at least 8 weeks before they will look at my application. So I either leave that out of the probate form, or guess how much the balance is. Or leave applying for probate until these institutions decide to provide the information I require.

Have you heard from HMRC yet ? I'm currently in a similar position with you (although found dealing with the bank straight forward). I waited 8 weeks to get the relevant NS&I details, but the last piece of the puzzle for me is for HMRC to calculate if the deceased owed or was owed tax.

The frustrating bit of that is that the initial letter I got from them said that they'd aim to work out whether tax was owed or owing within 8 weeks of the death, but it could be longer if they didn;t hear back from various institutions. And that they'd write again if tax was owed or owing, but that you won't hear anything if everything is ok.

So after 8 weeks you don't know whether it means that nothing is owed, or if they are still waiting for info. In the end I phoned them to find out which it was, and am now waiting for calculations for the last three years to arrive from them. The good news is that the number on the letter was a dedicated bereavement line so I got straight through to a very helpful lady. .

You need the Zedra bereavement team

They're mistaken in asking for the GOP, and you need to politely insist at your meeting, that as the executor, you need the information, before probate can be granted, and repeat, clearly and firmly. You could also look online for some formal guidance on what is needed for probate, and show them that. Usually the confusion stems from them assuming it will be a solicitor who is the executor, but as you're aware, there no reason at all why you can't do it.

They don't always know what they're doing, I had a bank decide to transfer a relatives account i to my name (I just wanted them to close it!), and get my name wrong, so that no one at all had the right to access it, and they didn't appear to have a way to fix that (luckily there wasn't much in it!).

Sorry wrong info

IME the majority of staff in bank branches know nothing apart from day to day moving of money. You need to find out how to contact the bereavement team, then you have to give them a hard copy (original) death certificate and proof of your identity and your role as executor plus bank account details. Once you provide all that they should be helpful.

Barclays were very helpful when I had to deal with several deaths, but you have to speak to the bereavement officer (or whatever they are called) and have a face to face meeting. They won't accept photocopies of documents.

As my DM’s executor, I was only asked for a copy of the death certificate, the will, and my own ID to get a valuation at death on accounts held for quite a few banks and building societies. I was only asked for GOP for closing accounts / transferring balances, and then it was usually if it was over £10k or £50k (depending on institution).

It is so frustrating isn't it?
I spoke to HMRC yesterday just for advice on submitting the probate application without having all the figures from the bank and NSI. Their response didn't really help as they said to estimate the funds. It now seems Barclays may give me a valuation in a few weeks but it will be over 8 weeks before I hear anything from NSI. The only other asset is the house, which I do have a probate value for. I believe the estate may be close to the IHT threshold or just over.

At least NSI will pay any IHT due on the estate from the accounts held with them, so we don't have to find the money for that.

I have done as much as I can until I hear back about the valuations, and today I am going away for 3 days on a very welcome break. I have not had a holiday this year due to my late relative's illness and his spells in hospital. Then when we get home it will be continuing clearing the house ready for going on the auction market when we finally get the grant of probate.

Glad they've moved on the valuation, but eight weeks is a long time to wait for one letter. Barclays is on the Death Notification Service - it's a single online form, it goes straight to their bereavement team rather than the branch, and from what I've seen the date of death balance letter usually follows within a couple of weeks of them getting the certificate. If you've only dealt with the branch so far it's worth doing that in parallel.

The other thing is the clock. Interest on any IHT starts running from the end of the sixth month after death whether or not you've got your figures, so don't let Barclays' timetable push you past that. You can get an IHT reference number now and make a payment on account from NS&I to stop interest, then settle up when the final numbers are in. The IHT400 also has a box for flagging figures as provisional estimates, and you correct them afterwards with form C4. Barclays are also in the direct payment scheme (form IHT423) if the NS&I money doesn't cover it.

I've got a one-page list of what each of the big banks' bereavement teams ask for and roughly how long they take - message me and I'll send it over.