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Original poster

Licensing Law in pub after serious accident

38 replies

Mya2022 · 04/05/2022 14:24

I'm in the middle of of a civil but also legal claim against a pub.
I sustained serious injuries in there 2 months ago resulting in surgery due to a massive mistake they made. The whole incident was caught on CCTV which the local Environmental Health Officer viewed and wrote about in her witness statement on on day 8.
She has made numerous requests for them to send her the footage and they have not and now 8 weeks on they are saying the footage has gone. She has told me that this is now with the licencing team to see if this was a breach of their licencing conditions.
Does anybody know if this would have been a breach and if so, if they do breach licensing conditions what happens in this instance?
Thanks

OP posts:
ThreeLeggedCat · 04/05/2022 16:28

You need to know what the licensing conditions are to know if they had a CCTV condition. Each premises has different conditions, hence why the EHO has passed to licensing. Depending on the specific wording of the condition as to whether they will have breached it. Sorry can’t remember if the LA prosecute directly for breach of conditions but they can certainly call the license in for review. As can you. Have you done this?

Original poster
Mya2022 · 04/05/2022 16:41

@ThreeLeggedCat thanks for the reply, I didnt realise that it was different for each premises. I guess there's not a public place where I can view their license?
I don't really understand the final part of your post but I'm concerned that the LA wont be doing enough. This isnt a chain pub and the owner and manager have very close links with the head of the council (friends with him and his family) and they also sit on various committees for council organised events in the local area.
The licensee broke 2 laws as he didn't report my accident under Riddor requirements until a month later (I went straight to hospital and had surgery, they knew that) and they had no risk assessment on site despite having more than 5 employees.
Now there's also this cctv issue too.
They're being interviewed under caution tomorrow and had an improvement notice served but I have no idea what will actually happen to them.
I've emailed the EHO to say I trust that their relationship with members of the LA wont detract from what happened and she has responded saying these people are kept regularly updated on the situation (which I'm not sure is ideal as they're friends!)

OP posts:
ThreeLeggedCat · 04/05/2022 17:50

Mya2022 just sorting kids/tea/swimming but I will try to explain calling for a review more clearly in a bit.

Soontobe60 · 04/05/2022 17:53

Am i the only one curious to know what happened?

clippety clop · 04/05/2022 18:08

Are the police not involved, sounds like they've deliberately "lost" evidence to me.

Fleurdebleurgh · 04/05/2022 18:14

You will be able to view the pubs premises license on your district council website.

Antarcticant · 04/05/2022 18:15

Soontobe60 · 04/05/2022 17:53

Am i the only one curious to know what happened?

Nope!

Original poster
Mya2022 · 04/05/2022 18:22

clippety clop · 04/05/2022 18:08

Are the police not involved, sounds like they've deliberately "lost" evidence to me.

@clippety clop see this is what I am wondering. Should they be involved? It's the LA doing the interview under caution.
I'm so worried it's all going to get swept under the carpet based on the links between the pub and the council but I am not prepared to sit back and watch it happen. Also don't want to make myself look like an idiot if I'm suggesting things which wouldn't be feasible.

@Soontobe60 it's outing but oh well. Their cellar door was right next to the dance floor. They forgot lock it an had no signs on the door. I pushed the door thinking it was the ladies (4 drinks in) and fell straight down a flight of extremely steep concrete stairs. Multiple fractures and a haematoma in my head.
They didnt fill out an accident form and told the LA that i fell in their toilet but this was disproved by cctv which they won't send but she saw.

OP posts:
ENoeuf · 04/05/2022 18:28

www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/when-how-investigate.htm

i would probably contact HSE for advice tbh bearing in mind you don’t have much faith locally . They can probably tell you of any steps you haven’t considered?

Original poster
Mya2022 · 04/05/2022 18:38

I've just found their license, it mentions opening hours, food services and children on the premises but nothing else.

Have compared it with another pub locally and theirs looks the same.

@ENoeuf that's a good idea, will call them tomorrow. I spoke to them a lot in the early days when I knew they hadnt reported under riddor regs but as it's a leisure venue there wasnt a lot they could do

OP posts:
AskingforaBaskin · 04/05/2022 18:43

When did the Police first attempt to have the CCTV burned?

ENoeuf · 04/05/2022 18:46

Good luck, it sounds horrific. I hope you have a good solicitor and get some support for whatever long term needs you’ll have x

MrsPinkCock · 04/05/2022 18:47

It’s impossible to say if it’s a breach of their licensing conditions - but you have a witness statement which supports your version of events, as well as clear geographical evidence of the premises, plus their delay in providing evidence, as well as their obvious failure to provide evidence to you which was supportive to your case! You only need to demonstrate that it’s more likely than not that your accident occurred in the way it did due to their negligence and it sounds as though you won’t have too much difficulty in proving that.

Original poster
Mya2022 · 04/05/2022 18:53

AskingforaBaskin · 04/05/2022 18:43

When did the Police first attempt to have the CCTV burned?

@AskingforaBaskin the police have never been involved. I tried to involve them but they told me it's down to the LA to report to them if they feel a crime has been committed

OP posts:
AskingforaBaskin · 04/05/2022 18:56

When was the first time the CCTV was requested?

Many CCTV systems auto wipe after a certain time

30 days, 3 months, 6 months etc

Original poster
Mya2022 · 04/05/2022 19:03

@AskingforaBaskin 8 days after the EHO viewed it and asked them to email it to her.
They didn't and she's since made numerous requests and they always said theyd send it and never did.
After a month they said the footage has gone now

OP posts:
AskingforaBaskin · 04/05/2022 19:10

It probably has gone.

Are they independent or apart of a brewary/company?

Original poster
Mya2022 · 04/05/2022 19:12

Totally independent :(

OP posts:
LIZS · 04/05/2022 19:15

Not sure eho has authority to ask for a copy of cctv or even view it. Were you a customer or employee?

Original poster
Mya2022 · 04/05/2022 19:17

LIZS · 04/05/2022 19:15

Not sure eho has authority to ask for a copy of cctv or even view it. Were you a customer or employee?

Wow really? I thought that was their job but maybe I've misunderstood their area of responsibility
I was a member of the public

OP posts:
Original poster
Mya2022 · 04/05/2022 19:18

It's the EHO doing the interview under caution tomorrow too

OP posts:
springtimeishereagain · 04/05/2022 19:18

Shit, op, that sounds awful. I hope you have fully recovered and that you can get the pub to pay up. They made a mistake and should pay for it.

springtimeishereagain · 04/05/2022 19:19

And at least the EHO has seen the CCTV... and she has the paper trail asking the pub for it, which should go in your favour.

BeforeGodAndAllTheFish · 04/05/2022 19:20

Cant you just leave the council to get on with it and just sue them in a civil case yourself? This sounds open and shut for a compensation claim which could shine more of a light onto it and put pressure on the council.

DellaPorter · 04/05/2022 19:21

They will be in breach of data protection for deleting the images as they have done.

ico.org.uk/for-organisations/sme-web-hub/whats-new/blogs/installing-cctv-things-you-need-to-do-first/

You can make a subject access request for it, and also report them to the ico

ico.org.uk/make-a-complaint/