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Original poster

Urgent advice please - grandad conned into leaving carer his house

57 replies

Goldrill · 24/03/2013 15:19

Any advice appreciated please! My grandad is in his 90s and in hospital being very seriously ill after a fall. My mum and dad have gone in to see him and he has mentioned in passing that he has left his house to one of his carers.

The carer comes in for an hour a few days a week but has been seriously abusing her position for several years. Mum hasn't done anything to date because the lady is kind to grandad and he likes her a lot - so she didn't want to upset him - and he has been fully in control of his faculties so to some extent he knows what he's doing. Example would be: carer's car breaks down and has to be scrapped. Grandad offers to sell her his car - worth around £4.5k - for £600 - to help them out.He must know it's not allowed because he sells it to her husband so carer won't be in trouble. She also works cash in hand for him on top of her normal hours, and gets her husband in to do odd jobs for cash.

Grandad has now realised he shouldn't have left her the house and wants to change his will - to only leave her half of it!

What on earth should my mum do? I think she needs to get his solicitor in there first thing tomorrow to get the will changed - I also presume she can go to the carer's employers; is this a case for the police also? This woman has access to a string of elderly and vulnerable people - god knows how many more she's conning. My mum was keen only to see her good side until the thing with the car, and thought she was just being nice, but the carer knows grandad is leaving her the house, despite being on very good terms with my mum as his only child, and has not said anything to mum or refused it.

Thanks in advance for any advice. My poor mum!

OP posts:
HeySoulSister · 24/03/2013 15:34

Wait a minute.... How do you know she has 'conned' him about anything?

Rainbowinthesky · 24/03/2013 15:41

I agree with Soulsister. It sounds like he wants to leave her at least half of the house and you say he is of sound mind.

JaquelineHyde · 24/03/2013 15:44

Your Grandad sounds in complete control of the situation and has decided that instead of leaving his carer (and his friend and companion no doubt) the whole house he would like to leave her a share of the house.

He does not sound like a man who has lost his mind and has made decisions throughout his frienship with this woman that shows that he knows exactky what is going on.

If your Mum or anyone tries to challenge this now it could cause huge amounts of bad feeling and ruin any time that your Grandad has left.

You have no proof this woman has conned anyone and I would tread very carefully before making and accusations.

Original poster
Goldrill · 24/03/2013 15:46

Would have no problem if she were genuine, but her actions regaeding money in the past suggest otherwise. Had anyone found out about the car, for example, she would have lost her job. There are plenty of other examples; so assuming I am right, does anyone have any advice, please?

OP posts:
Rainbowinthesky · 24/03/2013 15:48

Perhaps I am a bit cynical but you say your mum knows he has been abused for several years but has only decided to do something about it now her inheritance is being affected Hmm

Rainbowinthesky · 24/03/2013 15:49

My mother has no money but had I thought she were being abused I would do something about it immediately.

Original poster
Goldrill · 24/03/2013 15:50

yes rainbow - i can see it looks like that, but she genuinely did not want to upset him and she was trying to keep an eye on things without rocking the boat. i tried to persuade her to report the carer quite a few times!

OP posts:
Original poster
Goldrill · 24/03/2013 15:51

ok; forget i asked. solicitor and police it is then.

OP posts:
Rainbowinthesky · 24/03/2013 15:53

You still haven't given any real evidence of him being conned. Have you kept a record of the examples?

fridayfreedom · 24/03/2013 15:54

I work with elderly people with the NHS and there are very strong guidelines about accepting any payment of any kind including in wills from any of our patients. If this carer works for an agency then they too should have guidelines on this. Even if your father is of sound mind and has capacity to make this decision no matter how foolish she should not be accepting anything like this from him as it is an abuse of her position and potentially very dodgy.
I would flag it up with her employer and probably also Adult Services as it may be a safeguarding issue especially if she Is potentially accepting things from other clients as well.

fishybits · 24/03/2013 15:55

Whether he was conned or not, surely all your Grandfather has to do is change his will to reflect his change of mind.

broccolirocks · 24/03/2013 15:56

I'm a paid carer and I would never, never expect anything like this to happen. Sorry to disagree with the others but I agree you need to look into this. Her employers need to know what's happening regarding the car and the will, and if she is genuine she will have already have told them. Even the 'cash in hand' is potentially a sackable offence as she is not covered by insurance when she's not officially employed and they might not like the fact they're not getting their commission.

Tell the agency, and if you're genuinely concerned your grandad is emotionally vulnerable then, yes, also speak to the police to get advice, doesn't mean pressing charges.

I've had gifts and if it's more than a couple of pounds I always declare them, and if I thought I was putting myself in a position that could look dodgy, say someone with dementia, I would even refuse 50p.

mumblechum1 · 24/03/2013 15:56

As Fishy says, your grandad can simply make a new will tomorrow if he wants to do so, and still has capacity.

fridayfreedom · 24/03/2013 15:58

Just re-read your post, yep would raise it with Adult Services and also the police, they work together on safeguarding issues.
Get as much evidence as you can re what she has done, ask for bank statements etc

CajaDeLaMemoria · 24/03/2013 15:59

From a legal standpoint, this will come down to your grandfather's state of mind.

The solicitor would contact his GP and find out if there is any reason that his decisions are not sound. This could cause a lot of bas feeling. If he is found to be unable to make decisions, someone would need to be appointed power of attorney and make all important decisions for him.

If he is found to be of sound mind, his decisions regarding inheritance stand.

Unless you are claiming that his carer threatened or coerced him into changing his will? That's a very strong accusation that would need to be made to the police, with your grandad giving a full statement.

Trazzletoes · 24/03/2013 16:05

I can't believe that the carer would be allowed to receive a house, or even half of it!

OP, definitely solicitor and police. If there's nothing to investigate, then fine but it sounds as if your grandad is at least vulnerable. Just because someone appears to be of sound mind doesn't automatically mean that they are! You don't just wake up one day having lost the plot overnight!

It sounds like this woman knows she is abusing her position (if she knew she wasn't allowed to accept the car) and surely that is easily proved. Although he had sold it to her DH, I'm sure her employer can see through that!

Trazzletoes · 24/03/2013 16:07

Er, rainbow she has a £4,500 car for £600!

Rainbowinthesky · 24/03/2013 16:09

So why didn't they deal with the carer when this happened? I would be ballistic if it were my parent.

Rainbowinthesky · 24/03/2013 16:10

If he is being abused then it has been happening for many years. Sad

Moominsarehippos · 24/03/2013 16:10

Doesn't Age Concern advise?

An elderly man I knew had a home help who jumped into bed with him before his wife was even cold. There was a good 50+ year age gap (not 'love' then). She got a fair bit out of him (incl a property) before the family managed to get the limpet off. Unfortunately, the chap was very much 'sound of mind' and very much 'I shall do as I please'. He was in a very low state after his wife died. The family told her they'd go to the police, so if she was doing nothing wrong, then she'd get an apology, otherwise...

JaquelineHyde · 24/03/2013 16:16

Report it then but be prepared to lose what little time you have left with your Grandad.

Also bare in mind that your Grandad could still leave this woman whatever he wants. She may not officialy end up working for him but she could still remain good friends with him and continue to offer to care for him on a cash in hand basis.

I am also shocked that your family members suspected your Grandad was being taken advantage of/abused for years and yet chose to do nothing about it until he is about to die.

Not wanting to rock the boat Hmm yes, yes because rocking the boat now just when it looks like someone is about to die is the much better option isn't it!!

Original poster
Goldrill · 24/03/2013 16:18

Thankyou, especially the carers - I was fairly sure this wouldn't be allowed but you never know and I'm certainly no expert. Age concern also a very good idea - I will pass all this on to my mum.

OP posts:
babybarrister · 24/03/2013 16:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Goldrill · 24/03/2013 16:22

Jacqueline; "whatever". Don't be shocked: you have the barest of summaries and no nothing whatsoever of the detail.

OP posts:
Nandocushion · 24/03/2013 16:26

I disagree with the other posters. An ex's elderly grandad was also conned into leaving a large share of money to one of his carers, and yes, it is elder abuse. Someone can be technically of sound mind but still easily coerced if they are in a vulnerable state, as I assume your grandad is if he relies on carers. Definitely go to a solicitor, and to the police - not sure if they can do anything though, as I believe it is a civil issue.