Unmarried - how do I ensure that I can protect myself and children should he leave?

[mischiefmummy]

My 'D'P has recently made it absolutely clear that he has no wish to marry (me or anyone else) ever. We've been together 13 years. He insists that as he has a will and life insurance that I have no need to worry. I am not convinced.
As a SAHM with four children how best can I ensure that financially, legally and tax wise we are properly set up, especially if, as it is always possible, that he should walk away from the relationship?
Our house and BTL are both in joint names if that helps?
Thanks in advance to you knowledgeable mumsnetters!

You will only ever be able to claim child maintenance no spousal maintenance.
But if property in joint names then check if joint tenants or tenants in common.

As C'est la Vie says, you have no entitlement to spousal maintenance or to a share of his pension if you split up, not to any widow's benefit linked to his pension.

If the house is held as joint tenants and either of you die, the survivor of you will inherit that person's share, but if it's held as tenants in common it won't, unless you have wills in place.

If you were married and split up, you would be likely to receive significantly more than 50% of the capital assets as you aren't working, so your mortgage capacity is much less than his (or nil), and assuming that the children would live with you most of the time, that would also be a reason for you to receive more than 50%.

As you are unmarried, if you split you will have an uphill battle to get any more than 50%, and you may need to make an appln for a Schedule 1 order under the Children Act to allow you to stay in the house with the children until the youngest is 18.

Have you seen his will?

No I haven't seen it but he assures me that everything is left in my name. I would prefer to arrange mirror wills but it's an uphill struggle!

I do worry about pensions etc. He obviously contributes to his own every month but I don't have one as I've not been working. He shrugs it off, saying I will share his....

Thank you for the advice.

Tell him there's a fab Mumsnetter who has a will writing company advertised over on Classifieds (Small Businesses) who will do him a good deal

You will only share his if he chooses to do so, legally you have no entitlement.

You need to see what his will says!

Hopefully he will change his mind. It sounds like you could be in quite a vulnerable situation. Apart from anything else you would have no entitlement to his pension should he die, and your own will likely be quite patchy if you have been a SAHM for a while. Also even if he leaves everything to you you may have to pay inheritance tax if over a certain amount, which you wouldn't have to if you were married.

I think once you have children it is responsible to get married, just to make sure everyone gets what they need legally/financially. It's all fine as long as everything goes to plan but, as you say, a different matter if someone gets ill/dies/leaves.

Do you know what it is he objects to? Is it the idea of marriage, a previous bad one, or the whole wedding circus?

After 13 years I am still no clearer as to what his issues are , I lived hopedfully for many years but having finally pinned him down in a conversation he says it just seems like a conveyor belt which everyone does but him!
Fo me it's about sealing the deal, we have four wonderful children and I want to feel safe and secure. I know he's committed to them, but I'd like to know he's 'officially' committed to me IYSWIM?
I'd be happy without any rigmorole (although I know the kids would love a party) but it's very hard to get him to open up about anything. He tends to just not say ANYTHING at all which means I have no way of knowing where the problem really lies.

Unless you see his will you have no way of knowing if what he says is true or even if he has a will.
How old are the dc?
He will only have automatic pr for those bron after 2003

Do you intend to work when dc older?
Have you asked him to pay your NI so you keep those up for state pension? Is he paying into a personal pension for you? You will have no claim on his pension and once dc older and left home then you will have nothing no claim.

If nothing in your name eg pension then you need to find out more and worry a bit....

You need to make mirror wills. If he won't show you his current will, I would worry. Fine, he doesn't 'believe' in marriage, but he damn well better believe in making sure the mother of his children will be ok if anything happens to him. There is no legitimate reason for him refusing to reassure you about this.

He's not contributed to my NI whilst I've been at home and nor do I have a private pension. He is well aware that I fret about the situation but seems happy enough with the status quo.
I think I'd be ok financially if he died (life insurance and pay out from his employer) but if he just upped and left I would be in dire trouble. He simply says this will NEVER happen!

Our Dcs are 10,9,6 and 3. He's out of the house from 6am - 8pm five days a week so all childcare falls to me. I'd be happy to work once DC4 is at school but it seems a bit much for me to shoulder all the childcare responsibilities and costs, plus I'd end up needing a cleaner and dog walker and holiday childcare. It's one of the reasons I kept on my old house as a BTL so at least I felt I was contributing something to the household financially and not quite so dependant. Ideally I'd like to pay off the BTL but he says that's not viable for tax purposes as he'd be taxed twice. In my mind at least we'd have another source of income and a good financial asset for later on in life.
It's been an uphill battle to have a 'proper' joint account. He would just transfer money in each month for all household DDs and food etc. I pay for all children's activities, presents, parties etc.

In an ideal world I'd like it all to be in joint names or with joint access so I don't feel so vulnerable.
About five years ago I was very ill after a miscarriage, almost died, needed a transfusion etc. It took almost 3 months before I could leave the house. I felt like I'd been hit by a train. He went to work as usual every day and left me with 3 DCs under the age of five. I had some wonderful friends who did the school runs and shopping and took my 18month old out each day so I could rest. But from 3-7pm I was alone. I couldn't stand up for very long so cooking tea, bathtime etc was almost impossible. I begged him for some help, someone to just come and help for 3x a week to get through the recovery period and he ignored my pleas. I was (and still am) so devastated by his behaviour that I never want to rely on him again but at the moment I have little choice. He didn't give reasons, just said nothing, didn't come home early to help, nothing. I was distraught but he had all the savings in his account. If it had been in joint names I'd have just organised it and I wouldn't feel so resentful of him now. If I try and explain any of this he just looks blank and says it's in the past so why worry? He is very good at looking hurt and confused as if I've been terribly cruel and unfair to him, but will avoid any discussion as to why I feel so anxious about the present financial situation.
Sorry that's far longer than I intended. Think I was just offloading

The good news is that yr DP is showing no signs of leaving, so no matter how badly he has behaved (yep, yr last post wasn't pretty reading) your problem is not imminent.

I would go and see a lawyer, for two reasons. First to find out what you will actually get (bring lists of his and your assets, etc so they can work it out) which will prob calm you down.

Two, you should make a will that leaves everything to the children, which will have to be in trust as they are so young. Then I'd hand him the draft of said will and say firmly that you'd like to think about whether he should be a trustee for them. If he isn't made a trustee, he has no rights or control at all to half the house, etc. That might give him the fear enough to start a renegotiation with honesty on both sides, or make mirror wills, which is what you want.

Anyway, haven't you made arrangements about guardians and things yet? Surely that should be done as a couple.

Don't forget to save some of your own money for yourself. Vital.

Thanks Corygal, I will look into your suggestions. We haven't appointed guardians as we couldn't agree (it's a lot to ask a friend to take on four children) and our siblings are out of the question! Think I now have a friend who is willing to take them if the worse should happen so will start to process that too.
Really wanted to start the year with an action plan so I don't have the sense of dread and anxiety next year that I have felt every year since the mc.

You need to protect yourself and the best way to do that is to work yourself. Childcare costs in the school hols would be shared and easy enough to arrange. You wont need a cleaner and could possibly walk the dog before and after as most people do.

Even if you were married spousal maintainance is rare and the courts would have no good reason you could not work and support yourself.

I dont think there is anything wrong with not having a shared bank account when not married, you could do the same if you were earning.

Clearly as a mother of one you have not experienced the chaos of four DCs. There would HAVE to be a cleaner, and a dog walker as I wouldn't able able to drag four children to the woods before or after school especially on winter days, or given the number of after-school activities. All the dog owners I know walk their pets in the daylight! It's much safer for a start!
As for a shared account, according to him everything is shared via a spreadsheet but it's funny how all my money is used up on food (which he obviously consumes), petrol and the kids and he's still ordering stuff on Amazon at the end of the month!

Appointing Guardians is the main reason for people to not get around to doing a will; it can seem such a difficult decision, but you have to bear in mind the tiny odds against you both dying before they're 18 against the massive problems that can arise when you die without making a will.

It's better to put in a Good Enough but Not Perfect Guardianship appointment into a will than not to make one at all.

I have a paid for Mumsnet advert over on Classified Small Business for anyone interested.

He doesn't sound very nice in some ways :(
All very well to say he will never leave you but it also means you can never leave HIM - no matter what lack of concern he shows about your health or state of mind. Have you thought about posting in 'Relationships' about how you feel?

Clearly it will never happen while you slogging yourself bring ing up the dc.
What you describe was cruel frankly.
You do need to offload go over to relationships.

What will keep him with you when dc older ?

Some one declaring they Will never leave You Well that can be quite controlling especially when You so dependent on him. Try and keep up skills. And confidence so You could Get work if needed

PS You Will only be ok if he dies if life insurance and employer payout ñames You as beneficiary have You se,en the documents?

If he's hellbent on not marrying why doesn't he gift you his portion of your jointly owned house and any savings? It will make you feel mores secure. Him not so much.

Thank you all so much for your suggestions. I had wondered about posting in Relationships but was trying to remain objective (but went off the rails somewhat!). And also I was a bit scared of getting a pasting....just feel too fragile for that at the moment.
You're quite right Cestlavie, I do feel controlled a lot of the time. Again, if I try to explain I'm told it's my choice how I feel and that I am too emotional and overwrought.
I do quite a lot of voluntary work which will definitely keep up my skill set. I head up a committee of trustees for a local charity so have to deal with employment issues, charity commission etc.
Mrs J - love your suggestion but sadly can't see him going along with it!!
He's a very quiet, quite closed person and I've tried hard to get him to open up over the years...clearly there are issues but he doesn't want to share them with me. He's quite stubbourn, makes up his mind and simply refuses to discuss his reasons.....it is SO frustrating!!

he is right that you are in charge of your feelings (and he his) but focus on this specific issue -
you want some secuirty
he says "dont worry it is fine" but refuses to allow you to see the paperwork which confirms that?

and sayig "i will never leave you" is nonsense - no one can promise that, and you also dont know if, should he die, you actually named as a beneficiary on life insurance/his will/ etc.

these things you need to know....

my exP said he would never leave me - he was right, i had to leave him

I think you will just have to bide your time until your youngest starts school then look to some type of employment so that you can have your own bank account and maybe start saving money. As DP works such long hours he (hopefully) earns a good salary. Would he pay for dog walkers and a cleaner and childcare during holidays?