Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Flip

Original poster

removing fathers parental rights(sorry, little bit long)

24 replies

ukrainianmum · 20/11/2011 21:26

please, can anyone advise how to do it in England. the father of my daughter have abandoned us almost three years ago.
in this time i got married and moved to france. i am from ukraine, so i need visa for almost any country in the world. same was for my daughter.

while i was in Ukraine in 2005 the father of my dd had put his name in her birth certificate. before it was just blank, i didnt gave details of him.
and i was using the very first birthcertificate for all the visa process.

now to extend dauther's stay in france they asked for more recent birth certificate to make sure he didnt recognize his rights to a child, and if he did he needs to give a permission for her to live abroad. and i recieved one with the father on it

now i want to remove his parental duties for good. my dh wants to adopt my dd, we want to have a family without looking back, plus I cannot afford looking for his contacts for years, there is no sureness he will not disappear again...

the biological father also has a new family, new wife, new daughter...

i was knocking on many doors all these years trying ti find him. and today i got his contact. the first talk didnt go very well.
but i want to know- how can i do it? can it be done without the court hearing if he agrees? and how long it may take??

thank you

OP posts:

Collaborate · 21/11/2011 00:46

Where was the child born, and when? Did you consent to him going on the birth certificate?

Original poster

ukrainianmum · 21/11/2011 08:26

the child was born in London in march 2005. no i didnt consent.

the child is ukrainian citizen as i am also.

OP posts:

Collaborate · 21/11/2011 11:47

I don't know the proper procedure for a father going on a birth certificate after the event, but if he's done it properly under English law he will have parental responsibility. However I don't know what French law says.

I doubt that any court would think that you wrongly took your daughter to France and order her return (due to his inaction and the time that has passed) but you really ought to be seeking the advice of a French lawyer. The child is no longer subject to the jurisdiction of the English court.

bemybebe · 21/11/2011 11:59

"while i was in Ukraine in 2005 the father of my dd had put his name in her birth certificate. before it was just blank, i didnt gave details of him."

"the child was born in London in march 2005. no i didnt consent."

If you were not married (I assume) how could the father put his name on the birth cert following legal procedures without OP's consent? It does not add up. Apart from the possibility that the father entered his details himself without following proper procedures. Did he just enter his details by hand?

Maybe a bit daft of me but can you get a copy of the birth cert to check what is actually there legally?

bemybebe · 21/11/2011 12:02

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, but I have seen some really bizarre legal documents alteration in my days by seemingly rational responsible adults. Nothing will surprise me here.

bemybebe · 21/11/2011 12:05

I think here you can order a copy of the birth cert for a nominal amount and see what was legally entered.

droves · 21/11/2011 12:09

Is the child's father from uk ? .
I'm confused as to how on earth he was able to put his name on the certificate ? .

I thought the both parents had to be at the registration of birth if they were unmarried ? ...and that. The father could only be added later if they got married and produced a marriage certificate? .

If that is not the case , then he must have committed some kind of fraud and this needs investigating .

droves · 21/11/2011 12:11

Do you know the date and place , when the father added his name ?

There must be a record of who witnessed it somewhere.

prh47bridge · 21/11/2011 12:40

The father's name can be added at any time even if the parents are unmarried. Normally both parents go to the registry office to do this. However, either parent can do this on their own provided they take a Statutory Declaration of Acknowledgement of Parentage completed by the other parent. So, in this case, if the father got the OP to sign this form to acknowledge that he is the father he would then have been able to get the birth certificate changed.

It is also possible for the birth certificate to be changed if the courts issue a Declaration of Parentage, but that seems unlikely in this case.

bemybebe · 21/11/2011 12:48

I thought so prh but OP thinks she did not consent to this change though...
OP, are you sure you did not sign anything in relation to the birth cert at all?

droves · 21/11/2011 13:43

So the father must have got someone else to forge ops signature on the sdap ? The op was abroad at the time , and if she didn't sign it then who did ?
The fathers gf/wife/sister/friend ect ?

bemybebe · 21/11/2011 15:55

If no documents were properly signed surely it is possible to overturn this re-registration. That said it was 6 years ago and OP was using the new birth cert without appealing to the authorities... I would get in touch with CAB over the phone and ask them, they do answer questions over the phone sometimes.

GypsyMoth · 21/11/2011 16:25

Why do you want to remove his PR??

babybarrister · 21/11/2011 16:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

ukrainianmum · 21/11/2011 21:08

thank you all for replies.

I already got a new copy of BC of my dd with the father details on it. i have wrote a letter to the registar office in england and got a reply that in dec 2005 two people were present at the registar office one was under my name.
the father is ukrainian also and during that period he was desperate to get a british nationality, but his case was falling apart. he was a long term refugee. and apparently they dont ask for any form of ID when changing details.. just the signature. which is in cyrrilic, and i would spot a difference, but not the english, who use latin alphabet.

; when dd was 2 months old I returned to Ukraine..i tried to get visa in novemeber 2005 but got refused.

so it is all very very difficult. in the letter from Registar Office they asked me to prove I wasnt in the country. and that it was not me doing the changes in the BC..

SaraSidle- because he is not the part of our life. he abanadoned us in difficult times. and because he is type pf person who will disappear again. he is not reliable at all. the reason for leaving us- I am not good for you. he left us 2 weeks before dd turned 4... plus mu dh wants to adopt my dd. plus- by any law fro, what I have learned so far- a father can impact on decision where his children are leaving. it means he permits, and if he will disapper again for some years??? it is too expensive in moral cost to keep him as a father

OP posts:

bemybebe · 21/11/2011 21:34

Sorry OP, I did realise you got the latest copy after I posted...

I guess it would be easy to prove you weren't in the country if you get your passports stamped when crossing the borders (Ukranian or British passport control).

I support you in your desire to remove dd's biological father from your life. Unfortunately, his consent will be asked at every turn in the international moves and if he has neither interest, nor contributes in any way to the life of your dd, i'd say good riddance.

GypsyMoth · 21/11/2011 23:06

All of his ducking and diving... Is he here illegally then?

Original poster

ukrainianmum · 21/11/2011 23:29

well.....q got his contacts last weekend. i was told, not by him that his new wife is from Luthiania which means that he is legal . she is also poor girl= 20 years younger married to a man with huge luggage from the past. i was the second wife. he did almost the same to his first dd....

unfortunatly passport is not with me, the expiry date, i already have a new one for 4 years...

please tell me, if you know- is it possible to remove him or not??

OP posts:

bemybebe · 21/11/2011 23:36

Sorry I have no idea, especially since you have not kept your passport.

As Collaborate and babybarrister - the professionals - have pointed to you earlier upthread the best way is to approach a French lawyer now. Especially, since you have no way of proving that he is on the birth cert fraudulently.

I have dealt with many lawyers in my time and more often then not they will save you a lot of hassle. At least ask for a quick advice... Good luck!

GypsyMoth · 22/11/2011 13:36

Remove his parental rights? No, it's not easy. This will all have to be taken to court.

But he is a crap dad now, maybe one day he will step up a but, and after all, this is your dd's blood relative. You can't just erase her dad out of her life because he's not been around much in the first years!

droves · 22/11/2011 13:59

I think to get him off the birth certificate , you are going to have to prove it wasn't you who was at the registers with him , when he added his details.

Where were you at this point ? Please tell me you were in Ukraine or France ! . Your passport should be stamped ? ( please have it stamped ). Even if you don't have the exact passport , maybe passport office will have kept a record of where you visited ? Police might be able to help ?

At least letters stating address and dates ....any hospital /doctors appointments / bank statements anything that will prove you were elsewhere at the time.

You need to get a lawyer onto this.

GypsyMoth · 22/11/2011 16:13

Op says remove parental rights... But these are separate to birth certificate. Which do you want removed? PR or name from birth cert?

prh47bridge · 22/11/2011 20:22

As I understand it the OP was never married to the father. Under UK law he therefore only has PR because his name is on the birth certificate. However, as Collaborate and BabyBarrister have said, the OP needs to approach a French lawyer.

droves · 23/11/2011 00:39

He only has pr because he fraudulently put his name on birth certificate .
Get that removed and the pr is dissolved .

Flip

Swipe left for the next trending thread