Is this normal - 2 ivf cycles, 53 eggs collected, 2x day 6 blastocysts

[Ecas88]

I'm getting conflicting information and I don't know who to believe.

I'm 35 so it's DH, I've had 2 mild ivf cycles (due to ectopic pregnancies) everything else looks good with me.

No male issues - analysis, culture and dna frag all good.

My first cycle I had 28 eggs, 16 fertilised, 12 good on day 3, 0 blasts on day 5

2nd cycle I had 25 eggs, 14 fertilised, 10 good on day 3, ended up with 2 day 6 blastocysts.

My clinic abc (create) wasn't pleased with results but said the protocol all went to plan and want me to just try again with the same protocol.

I spoke with another clinic who said they are terrible results and not normal at all. They would expect to see around 10-15 blastocysts from that many eggs.

Has anyone been in a similar situation? Are these bad results? Should I change clinic?

I'm so confused 😔

No at your age that isn't normal, I'm roughly the same age and have had 3 embryos for transfer from 12 eggs across 2 fresh cycles (admittedly 1 round when I was a bit younger). You have quite a low fertilisation rate and a big drop off after day 3. From what I know I think that would suggest a sperm issue of some sort. If your current clinic aren't willing to explore further I would definitely be going elsewhere and getting a second opinion before throwing more money at a fresh cycle. People do always respond differently but your results for your age are particularly poor. Sorry you're in this position and wishing you luck in the future.

Did u do ICSI? The sperm takes over from day 3.

Yes, that indicates a sperm issue. I’ve had four blastocysts after 2 rounds and I only managed 6 eggs total between both.

@SErunner I can't understand what is wrong then. My partner has no sperm issues, all his results are in the good ranges. We did dna frag he hardly has any. I don't have any issues that they can see either. Just my tubes :( not sure what is going so wrong with the cycles.

@goinbonkies no need to do ICSI as my partner has no sperm issues. He had the standard analysis which was good, we then thought we needed to do more sperm tests after 2 poor cycles. The dna frag test and sperm culture came back all good as well. No issues what so ever....that's why I'm so confused.

@girljulian I was told by my clinic that I would have a massive drop off due to so many eggs being collected, not all of them will be mature. The drop off between day 3 and 5 seems extreme though and it came across like it wasn't great but that is how it is and just try again. It's only because this other specialist came along and told me it's really bad that I'm now questioning everything

It's really bad, not normal at all.

One side could be that because it's so many eggs that they don't have good quality, did they over stimulate you?

But like others say, if they die after day 3 it means is the sperm.

I would change clinics, do next stim with less medicines, perhaps get less eggs but better quality and do PICSI which helps choose the speed with a powerful microscope.

Good luck

@Ecas88 It does seem very extreme, I’d have been devastated with those numbers as you must have felt so unwell getting so many eggs! If I were you I’d try another clinic for a second opinion on the protocol.

How close to the IVF did they do the semen analysis? Or did they confirm on the day of IVF that it was a good quality sample? Sperm regenerates every 3 months so the quality can change quickly.
Me and my husband have extreme male factor and our first two rounds we didn't get any day 5s. I know this probably isn't what you want to hear but as others have said I would change clinics because something isn't adding up. As others have said a drop off from day 3 normally indicates sperm because that's when the sperm plays a more active role in the embryo development.
Are you also taking supplements for egg quality?

Sending hugs as it's a tough journey and so disheartening when you end up with nothing on day 5.

@Olivie12 I was on 125 bemfola the first time and had a massive estrogen spike on day 3
Second round was 100 bemfola and estrogen spiked day 5 this time. EC both on day 10.

53 eggs were taken but they are not all mature....if they were my ovaries would have been 10x the size, so really the first round 16 fertilised so probably only that amount were mature enough then second 12 fertilised, I was told I would prob only get 8 from the scan as these were at the mature size, so i got more than expected that time. So 28 mature eggs and 2 blastocysts that only made it at day 6 :( still doesn't sound great.

We were told to investigate sperm due to it being after day 3...so we did all the tests and all the results are really good, no sperm issues whatsoever. This is why I don't know what to do next.

I'm not sure how much lower a dose I can do either....would really like to find a solution were I don't get that many eggs...but unless I go full natural I'm not sure if it exists.

@girljulian I felt absolutely fine all the way through, felt a bit full around the egg collection as my ovaries were big, but still mild discomfort and no signs of ohss either on the second round...my clinic said it looked like a textbook protocol 😞....clearly it can't have been if I'm getting poor results

@lemons44 we did an analysis about 1 month before we started ivf, on the NHS, this came back OK. Then after each cycles they said sperm look good and we can go ahead with ivf.

We then went to an independent fertility clinic who checked dna frag and also culture to check for bacteria in the sperm. He scored 25% which well in the normal range. No bacteria or issues in the culture either. They told us no issues with sperm and no investigation to be done. But said that my ivf results are really poor and I need to be looking into another cause for it.....so I'm at a loss what I can now do.

I take ubiquinol and procieve supplements atm we both eat high protein diets.

It's horribly tough, I'm so lost right now, thought it was just my tubes that were the issue and now it seems like a million other issues keep coming up :(

@Ecas88 did the clinic tell you what happened to all the ones that didn't make it? For example did they all stop developing at day 3, did they make it to day 5 but just poor quality etc? I think I'd be pushing for a full breakdown of the result and would take those results to a different clinic for a second opinion. You can also book consultations with clinics to find out what protocol they would recommend (doesn't mean you have to actually use them) just to get other opinions on what changes may yield better results.

I think it's positive you got 2 blasts from the second round. Did they tell you anything about the quality of these ones?

It's so tough and I'm sorry you're going through it. X

@lemons44 they didn't tell us what happened to them, I'll ask them and see if they can give me further information about it.

They were a 4bb and 4bc on day 6. He said the 4bb was almost a 5bb as it had started to show signs of hatching. So not awful quality but not good either.

I've booked in with a consultant called Lynn Chapman, apparently she's well known (although I've not heard of her) so I'm hoping she can give me a second opinion..... just more tests, more money and more time 😔

Following this as I've just had my day 5 update and feeling like a massive blow

21 eggs collected, 11 fertilised, day 3 we had "9 above average, 1 average and 1 below average" today we got a call to say that on day 5 only 1 has made it to blast and it's grade is 4CC so not great

After feeling so positive at the start I can't help but feel so disappointed. They are going to update us again tomorrow but I'm not feeling hopeful 😢

We had ICSI

@waitingforourmiracle I know how you feel its so horribly disappointing... you did better than my first cycle though. I had 28 collected, 16 fertilise, 2x grade 1, 6x grade 2 embryos on day 3. Then 0 blastocysts on day 5... they froze the best day 3 but I have no faith that will be any good. What medication were you put on for your cycle?

Forgot to ask, are they keep the 4cc to day 6?x

It's so tough isn't it, I know I should be grateful for even having 1 and I am but it's hard to get my head around!

Started on 125iu gonal f, went up to 150 and then back down again the last couple of days, cetrotide in the morning then buserelin to trigger. How about you x

I'm not sure actually, she probably did tell me on the phone if they were freezing today or tomorrow but my mind was everywhere! There a few they are leaving until tomorrow but I'm not feeling very hopeful x

Very similar to be honest... 125 of bemfola for 3 days then down to 112 for the remainder, as my estrogen spiked. They added in letrozole to try get my estrogen down from day 4. Buserelin to trigger on day 10 EC day 12.

Everywhere says about the sperm between day 3 and 5 but that's not the case in my situation and prob not in yours either as you did ICSI.

My clinic says maybe my eggs aren't getting too a good quality.... but unsure how when it's a good fertilisation rate (for mature eggs) and good day 3 rate...

Which clinic are you with? Do you have pcos?

So frustrating not knowing 😔

I feel like I've a hundred questions to ask! We've got our FET consultation next week so can ask away then

We're also with Create and yes have PCOS too x

@waitingforourmiracle the thing I haven't liked about create is that they don't really explain things, I have to ask loafs of questions, which I feel should have been told to me in the first place.

If I hadn't spoke to this other consultant, I think create would have just kept me doing the same thing with no changes which would likely yield the same results🤦‍♀️it's only now that I'm making a fuss that they are getting more involved into trying to work something out.

As we are in the same boat at the same time....Could you let me know how you get on/if you find out any useful info? I've got a consultation in a couple of weeks with another clinic as well as a create dr so will let you know if I find out anything useful as well.

When are you planning to do your fet?

Everyone has been so lovely but I agree maybe not had everything explained enough!

Yes of course! If there's anything you would like me to ask I'll ask the question!

As soon as possible! I'll have a withdrawal bleed shortly I'm presuming and then I'll start on my next period, they tend to have a mind of their own, my last one was 45 days so another waiting game!

We've just had our update and unfortunately no made it so putting all our hope into the one they froze yesterday x

@waitingforourmiracle sorry to hear the rest didn't make it, it's so heartbreaking. but you still got a day 5! I hope it works for you this time 🙏🙏

I'm due to start another cycle soon, but thinking that i might have to miss this month to try investigate what is going wrong.

Really hope someone can come up with a better plan. It's all so disappointing 😞

Best to luck to you. I'll update you with what they tell us xx

Hey, I know this is a fairly old post but just wondering how you got on and what you ended up doing moving forward? We’ve had a similar experience, had 27 eggs collected, 12 mature, 9 fertilised but ended with one day 6 blast (4bb). We found out this week that our FET unfortunately failed so we are looking to start another cycle again soon. We had a chat with our consultant and she wants us to go again with the same protocol because I responded very well to the drugs and it was a ‘textbook cycle’ but obviously not a textbook outcome!! Just a bit confused and not sure how to move forward with our next cycle. Thanks so much