ERA EMMA ALICE testing thread #6

[Gardenlady543]

@Janefx40 @birdbybird @seven201 @Gardenlady543 @patientpatient @MyEasterEggs @thislittlebird @Yuliaaa @Violette22 @2021ivfagain @OrangeBengal @Enfys23 @Loz2467 @DEIVF @Hopeful199 @ER12 @greendress789 @Douchas12111 @Lori2022 @AdviceForJane @Anonbaby @Molls87 @ChickenT2b @GoldenElephant @IVF22 @StillTrying10000 @warrior101 @whatcangowrong @Yaynayokay

Oh yes it really has happened we are onto thread #6.

All are welcome to join us, we started out as people interested in ERA EMMA ALICE but we seem to have had every test available between us.

So if you want to know about the microbiome, reproductive immunology or you just feel your case is complicated and what like minded people to talk to about it you've come to the right place

That’s wonderful - congratulations @OrangeBengal I was very worried about the embryos so it’s good to know they can be successful. did you get inconclusive or no DNA detected in the initial biopsy? we had one of each which i think is quite unusual but they then came back normal and low mosaic on the second test.

Thank you @OrangeBengal good question. I'll note that one.
I've actually just been offered our review with Mr Shehata for Monday too as they'd had a cancellation. So all the reviews on the same day. I called my husband as I was unsure and he just said both are going to say its not their fault and ask us for more money so majes no difference if we do it next week or in December 🤷🏻‍♀️ he's very disillusioned with it all right now. I'm just numb to it all.

Thank you @thislittlebird hope you're feeling OK on stims.

Came back ‘unknown’ the first time and ‘euploid’ the second @Dochas12111. I was worried too, my clinic debated whether to go with this one or my 4BC that had only gone through one round of tests, but decided to see how this one went first. They were really happy with its progress and in the end it went from a 4BB to a 5BB.

There’s definitely going to be some numbness @VenusStarr, so it’s a great idea to go into both sessions with prepared questions.

@VenusStarr good to hear from you ❤️ I would probably focus questions quite open: like what in your opinion will give us the best chance at this point.

@Douchas12111 are you planning a transfer soon?

@thislittlebird congrats on getting through the antibiotics 🎉 they always make me feel awful. Will you do a transfer with this collection cycle or is it a banking cycle? Are you doing vaginal probiotics?

@OrangeBengal yeha I’m feeling fairly ok physically. Woke up hot a couple of times and headaches the first day after gonal F 225 (alternating between 225 and 150) but otherwise ok, just a bit tender now.

@Gardenlady543 i still feel a bit crap from them, my stomach is not in a good way but hopefully will get better soon. Yeah I’m doing oral and vaginal probiotics right now.

I’m quite disappointed with the scans so far. We had 15 eggs collected last time, 13 mature and 9 fertilised, got 4 blasts and 3 made it to transfer. This time there’s only 8 growing on these higher dose stims (150 last time, 150/225 alternating this time). I started with about 20 and not many have grown. Planning a fresh transfer if we have anything to transfer and to PGT-A test any other that we freeze. So basically there wont be a lot to show from this. To say I’m sad is an understatement when I have a high AMH but the follicles don’t seem to want to grow. It all feels like such a waste of time.

@thislittlebird do you know what your FSH is? I know clinics don’t look at it, but I’ve done a lot of reading by Dr Robert Winston and he believes it’s important regardless of AMH. On the genesis research trust website, there’s lots of info on the ask Robert section and also his essential fertility guide book, I thought was an interesting read. Might not be anything relevant in there for you but I deffo thought it was a good read x

@Anonbaby dunny you say that because my GP basically said the same thing about AMH. My FSH was about 5 last time I had it done. I always start off with about 20 + follicles but they don’t all grow.

*funny

I am walking around in the tube

@VenusStarr I don't have any questions for you but just wanted to wish you luck for Monday. It's probably a good thing all your reviews are on the same day, as everything will be fresh and at the front of your mind. My only suggestion to you when you go into your review, is what do you want to get out of them and do you have any idea of a plan you'd like to take

@thislittlebird I'd second about the AMH, sometimes the numbers don't tell the full story. I was the opposite end of the scale to you regarding AMH levels (mine was 0.1 when I was 37) yet I got pregnant twice naturally very easily, when in theory I shouldn't have done. I went through natural IVF to try and squirrel away as many embryos as we could before all my eggs disappeared. That might be an option for you to look into, it's a gentler way of doing things and they focus on quality of the embryo, rather than quantity. I'd definitely get your FSH checked, it will give you more of a story as to what's going on

@thislittlebird 5 is good but I think it needs to be checked more than once as it fluctuates from month to month. Mine is 9.6 which is just within normal range. It was 3.9, 6.6 and 9.6 though in 2021 so I do have to wonder whether it’s really 9.6 or possibly higher. My AMH is good but RW seems to think once FSH is over 10, deffo over 15 it becomes much more difficult to get pregnant either through IVF or natural conception. I don’t know, it plays on my mind a little as there has to be a reason somewhere!

I probably should add that the clinics tell me it’s irrelevant x

It’s been much lower than 5 too and the clinics really aren’t interested in most things I bring up tbh. Either way the response is what matters, and 15 eggs is fine, I’m just disappointed in that it might be a lot this time on higher doses.

I don’t think FSH or AMH are why I’ve not conceived naturally, it’s my husband’s motility primarily and probably my egg quality because of my age. I have lots of follicles, but not all grow for whatever reason 🤷‍♀️

*a lot less

Thank you @DEIVF I really don't know what I want as an outcome. I don't know if I want to do more ivf, definitely not right now. I think I'm just resigned to them saying it's unlikely to work.

Thank you @Gardenlady543 ❤️

@VenusStarr best of luck for Monday. I'm not sure what to ask but I think I would want to hear their reflections on why they pushed for that egg collection. I know it wouldn't have changed the outcome but it did put you through a lot of additional emotional strain. Mostly just want to send you lots of love

There's been a lot of chat on here so sorry I've not quite caught up but yes I agree that FSH is important although it doesn't seem to be a factor for you @thislittlebird .

Testosterone/DHEA is important for over 40s and often ignored or not treated properly. I think that usually AFC is more relevant than AMH but again not in this particular case.

Also I think it has been significant for me how even the follicle growth is. So for me personally 6 follicles that are all even sizes has yielded more fertilised eggs (which I'm more interested in than maturity) than 12 follicles that were all different sizes.

8 follicles isn't bad even if you were hoping for more. I'm going to be hopeful for you even tho it's not going the way you want it to. X

@Janefx40 thanks, I’m fine with 8 even ones and I think they’re fairly similar, I’m just scared because DH has issues, we aren’t dealing with good sperm here. They’re using IMSI this time so hopefully they’ll find some aesthetically good ones if nothing else. And then we have the hurdle of PGT-A to get beyond which is probably the biggest one at our age, it’s stressful and we may end up with nothing. They said we’d transfer the best one anyway, so at least there might be one to transfer and we have done fresh before now.

If we really do have fewer eggs by Monday I will be discussing a return to lower stims with the consultant, since that yielded a good number of eggs and a few embryos last time. Will have to cross that bridge when I get there.

Have *NOT done fresh, so that’s new

@thislittlebird what day of stims were you at the last scan, follicles can suddenly pop up when you're on stims, is your next scan Monday?

Oh and yes a dodgy stomach after antibiotics is to be expected, get lots of nice probiotic food into you alongside the probiotics.

What have you guys heard about apple cider vinegar? I keep hearing everyone saying it's this amazing thing that everyone should drink daily and when I heard this I was like WTF, in a salad dressing maybe but drinking it?! Anyway, it was a big apple harvest for me this year so I did an experiment: home made apple cider vinegar made with 1. Just apple scraps 2. Just from the nice peeled apple pieces and 3. From a mix of pieces and scraps.

The verdict is the peeled pieces made the best version. So I cleared all the remaining apples off my tree at the weekend and have another batch going. Long story short I'm going to have about 10L of apple cider vinegar in a few weeks. Is this something I should be drinking daily because there is a chance I fermented it so that it's actually cider and I really don't want to be getting drunk daily!

@Gardenlady543 My nutritionist spoke to me about this the other day. She said to have apple cider with the mother (I had no idea what with the mother meant but its to do with it being fermented and gut friendly). She said to mix it with olive oil and have it on a salad and to have it daily. So maybe see how they make apple cider with the mother and if it's the same as how you've made it, you could have some daily. You've also saves yourself a fortune as it's £8 a bottle for it! Alternatively, if you've made cider, then it's a party at yours!

@DEIVF lol I know the answer to this:

"If a gelatinous blob develops on the top of your vinegar, congratulations! You have created a vinegar “mother”. This mother can be use to jump-start future vinegar batches. You can remove it and store it separately, but I usually just allow mine to float around in the vinegar as I store it."

So I assume it's a lump of probiotic bacteria. I actually did have some in my first batch but thought the only use was for future batches and it did fine as it was. It's so easy! So if you wanted to buy some apples and make it yourself you could.

This is the website I used for the instructions: www.theprairiehomestead.com/2015/02/how-to-make-apple-cider-vinegar.html

I just cut up a load of apples and then put it in a glass containers until it was 3/4 full. Then added filtered water with a tablespoon of sugar added per cup of water. It said to weigh down the apple to keep it under the liquid. It talked about fermenting weights or something but I realised those Gu glass containers that we all keep did the job. I had sterilized everything with a baby sterilizer tablet before doing any of this. Anyway I put some cheese cloth with an elastic band over the top and then after 2 weeks by a radiator I took the pieces of apple out but let the liquid keep going for another 2 weeks and that's it. Lots of organic home made apple cider vinegar!

Right now you've given me approval I will put drinking it into my daily routine and will have to see if I can create another mother in this batch.

@Gardenlady543 Well done on making it! And it sounds pretty straight forward to make, I think I'll have to have a crack at that. You'll have to let us know how you get on with it and what it tastes like 😀

@DEIVF if there's a incomprehensible message on here from me in the next few days you'll know I made cider.

@Gardenlady543 maybe the first time you try it, don't do it on a school night!

@Gardenlady543 I love apple cider vinegar! Can’t have too much of it due to histamine levels but add it to salads. Can’t say I’m a huge fan of the mother sliding into anything though 😆

Anyway, I didn’t pop on to chat about gelatinous blobs but LIT! Won’t bore you with the details (my clinic have been a bloody joke lately) but I’m heading to London for next dose of intralipids with Gorgy early next week - I haven’t had treatment with him yet but so far been following his advice - and he’s mentioned LIT again. His feeling is that we’re in with a good chance so need to cover every base. But has anyone ever heard of starting LIT during pregnancy? I was surprised he brought it up again but he feels we’re doing all we can to suppress immunes so may as well work from the other side and build my tolerance levels. Any thoughts? I’ve tried to look for info on Fertility Friends but struggling to find anything.

Oh no everybody. I just got my invivio vaginal microbiome test result back - high on atopobium vaginea and prevotella bivia and ZERO lactobacillus. I took metronadizole and doxycycline after I took this test in anticipation that there might be something (I’ve had 5 egg retrievals in last 6 months so thought it was likely I might have an infection given all the procedures). I’m also now taking symprove, optibac, invivio bio.me, and canesflor vaginally. Do you think I have done enough? Is there anything else I can do? I’m day one of my transfer cycle 😱 thank you for all the help you are all giving me