The harder DH tries, the worse it gets!?

[closephine85]

We have male factor (secondary) infertility. The first couple of semen analyses DH had were not great, around 12 million count and 4% morphology, poor motility. We tried 2 rounds of IUI but both times ended up with just 1 million and then less than 1 million count, morphology 2%. Since the bad IUI results he has tried SO hard. He went to see Dr Ramsay at the London clinic and was prescribed tamoxifen which has boosted his testosterone levels, he takes proxeed along with many other vitamins he has researched, he has also been eating a diet aimed at increasing fertility (handfuls of seeds, leafy greens etc etc). He is the right weight and he hasn't drunk any alcohol for nearly 2 years. We were both feeling hopeful for his latest analysis and planned to try stimulated IUI in July. His results came in yesterday... count: 4 million, morphology: 0%!!!!! motility: 65% (only one that has seen improvement).

Is it possible to take TOO many vitamins?!! or are these results just telling us that whatever is going on is out of our control? He has had an ultrasound and it showed no issues. He has had blood tests to check thyroid etc.

I know we are doing the right thing getting help from Dr Ramsay but these results have just made us both so down. I mean 0% morphology! That literally means NONE of them are normal/have any baby making potential... shit.

Hi closephine,
I'm sorry about DH results, It must feel like a real kick in the teeth, especially when he's doing everything right.
My OH has had two SA done, the first had a morphology of 0.8% then the second was 2% this was without lifestyle and vitamin changes. We was told morphology was the hardest to change, yet mattered the least. (I always thought that was strange logic)

I wonder if a DNA fragmentation test would be any help? I know nothing I've said as been partciular helpful but I just didn't want to read and run.

Thanks friends, I have literally just posted on the Dna fragmentation thread to ask some advice about it.

We are so gutted, he has tried so hard and I think because the tamoxifen had boosted his testosterone so much we thought we would get better results. Certainly not worse!

My DH had always had shit morphology and borderline sperm count, and after a month on antibiotics his count doubled (from 21m to 54m) and morphology went from 4% to 12%. We had the hidden infection tests with the Serum clinic in Athens, and it turned out we had a couple of infections that could have been affecting sperm. Might be worth checking this out.

Morphologically weird sperm can still have baby-making potential through IVF with ICSI. Ask your dr to do a sperm DNA fragmentation test, as that will tell you more about the genetic quality of the sperm, rather than just the shape of their heads & tails. If the DNA looks OK, you can have a wonky sperm injected into an egg, with a decent chance of it developing into a normal embryo. Good luck!

Thanks Bip - we are going to ask about having the DNA fragmentation test and I'm going to google the hidden infection tests right now! That's amazing that your DHs count changed so much just from antibiotics. Here's hoping my DHs are just wonky and not fundamentally flawed. Either way I think we need to find out for sure as we seem to have been going round in the same circle for years now.

I have followed your story on the mind numbing boredom thread (I don't post on there due to the secondary nature of my infertility - I don't feel worthy) and it would feel wrong to respond to you without saying how unbelievably sorry I am for the loss of your daughter and for everything you have been through since. I truly hope there are better times ahead for you.

I am so sorry for everything you are going through.
Can I ask where you saw Dr ramsay in London?
DH has low motility as only issue but we have just had a fairly rubbish third round of ICSI, and are going to have DNA fragmentation test done next. (I have been investigated extensively).
It really irritates me that women get huge investigations, but no one has no much as examined my DH testicles to ensure all ok.
Hopefully Dr Ramsay can work some miracles for us all. I truly wish you all the best. Xx

Hi SanFran

My DH went to a private clinic in Windsor for his appointment with Dr Ramsay. I think we booked it through the London Clinic.

It irritates me too - we really had to fight to get our hospital to show any interest in DHs results (in fact he ended up going back to his GP for a referral rather than the fertility clinic). We actually believed them when they told us his results were 'normal' after his first analysis. It was only about 6 months later when we asked to actually see the results we realised they were anything but and they have deteriorated from then on :(

Sorry to hear about your poor icsi cycles - I think that is probably the direction we are going in and will definitely be getting the (nice and pricey!) DNA fragmentation test done first.

That sounds similar to us Closephine, we had two SA done, both were apparently normal but neither actually was. They sent us away to keep trying for a further 6 months. When I went back I asked for a copy and I could see that although they wasn't completely awful they wasn't right. When I saw the Dr she just chuckled and said well it only takes one ! I was then referred on my own because it seemed obvious to her that it must of been me.
Have you seen Dr Ramsdam since the results? Did he suggest the DNA fragmentation too?

Hi friends - no, Dr Ramsay hasn't replied to our email with the results yet. It's been a week now so I think we might need to follow it up with a phone call.

We have decided to try stimulated IUI this month (desperately clutching at straws and trying to avoid ivf - will have to admit defeat after a few rounds of this I think). At least we will get another semen analysis next week.

I don't suppose anyone else had heard that using progesterone can make you lining extra fussy as to what it lets implant? I have been using progesterone in the second half of my cycle - I don't have a short luteal phase but I spot for up to 6 days before AF from about 13dpo. The progesterone has eliminated the spotting altogether so I do feel like it does some good. However, I am worrying that if it does make your lining extra fussy, then embryos might be rejected (especially with DHs rubbish morphology) that might otherwise have stood a chance. Does anyone have any idea about this? I'm not sure whether to take a gamble and not use the progesterone. I should also add that I'm 99.99% sure I had a chemical pregnancy in April (a month when I didn't use progesterone). Going round in circles as to what to do...!?