Just a little moan

[ChampagneTastes]

I don't really expect anyone to read this, just want to get it out. We have been trying for DC2 for two and a half years. No problems identified despite numerous tests. I'm 35. Both myself and my DH are a little bit overweight.

Anyway, I'm halfway through a tww. I've not had a drink for a month (I do enjoy a glass of wine). I've lost half a stone. I'm eating clean and exercising regularly. I have a maximum of two cups of tea/coffee each week. Taking supplements. DTD every other day with PreSeed.

I am doing EVERYTHING right. I am totally committed. But I'm pretty confident it's not going to happen. I don't really know what I want from this thread but some good positive vibes would be nice.

I totally understand. We have been TTC DC2 for 4 years and are about to attempt our 11th (and last I can afford) IVF cycle! Mmm, I don't really know what I can reply as I really don't know the solution or I would be pregnant myself! I am just saying I understand. There just simply must be something not optimal or it should certainly have happened within 2 1/2 years of trying. Are you planning on getting any further medical help or are you planning on continuing naturally since nothing has been identified as wrong.

Personally, when I started IVF, our first cycle had the embryo discintegrate before the day 2 transfer. I then researched how to improve embryo quality and found that high protein low carb increased IVF success. I am vegetarian so it was difficult but tired to find vegie protein sources. The next IVF produced two embryos that were at least still alive at day 2 but were behind where they should be and did not result in a pregnancy. I then gave up 20 years of vegetarianism and ate fish daily. The last IVF produced two top quality embryos at my day 3 transfer that did result in a brief pregnancy. So this IVF business has helped me to identify an embryo quality issue that simply could not have been picked up in normal testing but because IVF has taken the egg and sperm outside of me, it's given me extra insight.

I'm now with you on the 2ww before our last IVF and am happy to be here by your cyber side for support.

Shellster Thanks for your post. I'm so sorry to hear you are having similar difficulties. The NHS aren't willing to offer any further help (which is fair enough I guess) and I'm under the impression that there is little point to IVF if the infertility is "unexplained" but I see your point that it might identify issues that we can't see any other way.

It just SUCKS doesn't it? Did you conceive naturally the first time round? I'm wishing you lots of luck on this cycle. Are you madly symptom spotting too?

We've been trying to conceive a 2nd child for four years. Had our first private fertility consultation last week. It's all very new to me so don't know what to expect.

GP has been telling me for last 3 years all is normal, but now found out I have high FSH levels.

How frustrating sunshine that the GP has been stringing you along for 3 years. I am in Australia but I hear many stories on here of GP not referring onto NHS and the NHS then being so slow. It's frustrating when things only get worse with age. How did you go at your fertility consultation? What is the next step?

Yes Champagne, we conceived naturally the first time round. Took us one year. Was your first child an easy conception? Are you using PreSeed because you do not produce any EWCM, or are you just trying that as an extra thing to try? Perhaps allowing your downstairs to go through it's normal monthly acid and alkaline routine without altering it every other day with Preseed could be something you could try? I've read about the capacitation process sperm need to go through in our fertile mucus that occurs at ovulation, and I think it would happen better in what iwhat sperm are naturally designed to do this in, rather than Preseed. But of course, it would be even better if it worked this month and you don't have to worry about a plan of attack for next cycle!

No I'm not madly symptom spotting because we have our IVF next cycle so I am just counting down to that and pinning all my hopes on next cycle. I can't afford any more IVF after this so if it doesn't work, I want to try the 'forget and it will happen method'. But I have no idea how on earth I will do that!

I just wanted to share our story with you. We had a mmc before our beautiful daughter who is now 5. Coming upto her being 3 we decided to try for no2, unfortunately at 24wks we discovered our beautiful baby was very sick an would not survive after birth we lost him that week. After nearly 2 years of ttc no3 and give our girl a sibling we had 2 further miscarriages and we're due to visit the fertility clinic as tests came back normal, we found out we were expecting. Our 2nd beautiful girl is due in 8 weeks. Never give up even when it seems that you are at your darkest, the things most worthwhile in life take some effort and patience the time will come x

Sunshine I am sorry. It's madly frustrating isn't it? What does high FSH actually mean?

Zen I'm so sorry for your losses but I'm so glad to hear your happy ending. xxx

Shellster sorry, I don't really know an awful lot about IVF. Wishing the best for you this cycle though.

The Preseed is something I have only really tried this month so I've had many many months with normal acidity, etc. But it's a good thought. We stopped taking the supplements for a while because we needed to have a break from the whole thing but we started again this cycle; we've both been feeling rough and have put it down to them!

I'm at that point in my cycle where I can feel my AF coming on but I can just about kid myself that it might be early pregnancy symptoms. There's a faint air of desperation hanging around me at the moment.

[zen] so sorry to hear about your loss. Thank you for sharing.

[shelster] it's all early days at the moment. I've had a blood test for AMH (think that's what it is called) it will check my pool reserve, and I have to have FSH retested, thyroid and an anti follicur count. This will all happen later this month before the consultant can advise whether IVF will even work for us.

[champagne] high FSH basically indicates low egg reserve. I've been researching and apparently most clinics don't even consider IVF for those with a high FSH of 18 like mine. My heads all over the place at the moment.

Sorry don't know how to 'bold' your names.

Sounds live you've already done your researching and are trying everything Champagne. We too have tried the supplements and Preseed with no luck. I know that feeling exactly of getting an AF symptom, but desperately hoping it's a pregnancy symptom. I don't know how your NHS system works or how expensive going private is. It just seems awful for you to have to continue on like this for cycle after cycle.

I hope your appointments go well sunshine and that your next FSH comes back at a better level. I can imagine with this new high FSH diagnosis, your head is in a whirl. Is it rude to ask how old you are? I am about to turn 38 and it really puts the pressure on me that time is running out.

champagne,

What tests have you both had done to date and do you both have recent test results (i.e. any test under six months old)?. I ask as some tests can and do get missed out and if you are under the NHS currently they have likely missed something out.

What have they said; have they simply classed you as "unexplained" which is really no diagnosis at all?.

My fertility was also "unexplained". It took two rounds of IVF for the medics to understand that the problem was my eggs have a pretty tough outershell, so even with IVF and a good number of healthy looking eggs, I was getting very low fertilisation rates - 4 out of 19 eggs. The tough outer shell is something that can't be tested for. I needed to have ICSI at which point the fertilisation rate went up to 16 out of 18 eggs, 4 made it through to blastocyst and I have a 5 year old daughter now.

Good luck and I hope that you get your miracle, but don't write-off IVF/ICSI as it could work for you too.

I also had Metformin in the months leading up to and during early pregnancy - this was because I have PCOS which is mostly symptomless as I keep my weight down.

They said at our last appointment that as far as they were concerned there was nothing wrong, we were just unlucky. Tests we have done are: blood tests for me, scan of my uterus, HCG, and sperm analysis (which came out ok although the motility was the low end of normal). Is there anything else they could do?

I keep toying with the idea of going private but it's a lot of money for no guarantees (if we were to go for IVF). We're not high earners and although we've got savings, I'm cautious of spending to the detriment of the child we already have.

In happier news, I have shed 9 pounds in the last month so I'm only 12 pounds overweight now.

Shelster I'm 37, 38 later this year. So, yes the time pressure is hanging over my head! This is why I'm even more angry with the GP. He continued to say each time that my bloods were normal and I had secondary infertility, unexplained! He would not refer me anywhere as I already have one child. Three years I've wasted thinking the GP can't be wrong! Finally, now as I approach 38 I have had no choice but to go private.

Seeing GP tomorrow at 8.40am for an explanation. He has no idea what's going to hit him tomorrow!

Champagne! Well done on the weight loss!

How did you get on at your appointment sunshine? I guess nothing he can do to rewind time and fix his mistake. I live in Australia so am not familiar with your system but I hear lots of ladies on here with the Dr not wanting to refer them on. Why is this?? Why are the Dr's hesitant to help ladies by referring them to get help?? I don't understand!! Time is so crucial and these Dr's are destroying couples dreams of having a child.

9 pounds is an amazing effort champage! I totally understand where you are coming from about the high cost of IVF with no guarantees. I am already in debt from my last IVF and will be going further into debt for my upcoming IVF as I don't have time to save again with me turning 38 next month. I feel guilty that I am spending all this money for another child when it is taking away from the child I have. But then again, I feel guilty if my son doesn't have a sibling either, so it's a tricky situation. But I completely agree with worldgonecrazy that just because you are unexplained, it doesn't mean IVF won't work. In fact, I think IVF has a better chance of working for us with secondary infertility because we know we have no immune or implantation issues and it's just a matter of getting the egg and sperm together which isn't happening inside us for whatever reason. Either that, or it will reveal the issue as it did for worldgonecrazy and me, and then we can know what to correct for our next IVF attempt. But still there are no guarantees and of course, you have to do what is right for you.

Shellster yes, that a good point. I think I'm going to give it until September and then, if still no luck, I will go for private assessment. Probably. Unless DH changes his mind (again) about his job.

I'm on day 25 of my 26-8 day cycle and I think it's pretty safe to say that the fat lady has sung. Oh well, there's always next month.

Saw a different GP to the one that I have been seeing, and who has been telling me nothing wrong with me.

Basically she apologised profusely, not that that will change anything. She kept saying sorry and unfortunately nothing she can do to reverse what's happened. She said nothing she could say apart from giving me her positivity and best wishes for the result I want ?? I asked her to put on record everything I had said and that I was making a formal complaint. 3 years of my fertility years that have been lost!!!! I could have sought help sooner! My bloods also showed low iron and anemia - she picked that up today although every blood test I have had (bar the vit d) I have been told is normal.

She has given me a letter for vit d retest and advised to take the 1000 iu in the meantime as (she said) 'you're going through a lot at the moment so i don't want to prescribe anything that will affect you negatively'. I was initially prescribed 20,000 iu daily.

My husband has private health care from work (does not cover fertility) so I think I will pay the excess and have a full body mot done ! I'm done with the NHS! Just wish I could opt out and not continue to pay the hundreds of ££££ a month towards it! I wouldn't pay for any other shit service why should the NHS be any different!

We will be putting in a formal complaint against the GP and if need be taking legal advice and seeking private fertility costs to be reimbursed given their sheer incompetence!

Sorry to go on but I'm so bloody angry x

Shelster I totally understand what you are saying about taking away from the child you have, but feeling guilty about them not having a sibling either. I feel the same way entirely.

You are more than welcome to go on about that sunshine. I would be furious too. The worst part is that there is nothing that can be done to fix it. As you say, nothing can reverse the 3 years that have been taken away from you. And to make matters worse, you also find out that the other Dr also ignored your low iron blood test as well as your high FSH - more incompetence! How old is that high FSH result? Was it low 3 years ago and has recently risen? Was it on day 2 or 3 of your cycle that you had the FSH test done?

Sounds like a good plan champagne to have a set date for when you will seek further help. Is your hubby happy to seek medical advice.

Basically, I first went to the GP back in 2012 and was sent for bloods, which I was informed were normal. I then changed GP as move address and he also sent me for bloods, twice. Both times I was told they were normal, and there was nothing wrong with me and DH semen analysis was normal too. The last set of bloods were done in Feb 2015. I only have a copy of the 2015 ones yet, as my records from the old surgery are apparently paper and in the shed! Receptionist said she would dig them out and call me to come and collect a copy. I will then be able to see what my FSH levels were back then to compare. These tests have been done on day 3 and day 21. It is the day 3 ones that are showing high FSH.

DH is very supportive and it was his suggestion to complain and seek legal advice.

Okay, so it's really the 2012 bloods that show incompetence on the Dr's part if they FSH was high back then and he said they were normal. Not sure how your system works and if it's the same as in Australia - did your clinic take the blood and forward it to a laboratory for testing, or did you get a referral and go direct to the laboratory? Surely the laboratory would have a computerised history. So here in Australia, I could ring the lab direct and ask them to send a copy to my Dr of choice.

Glad your DH is being very supportive. I guess also somehow while you are sorting out this incompetence and seeking legal advice, another part of you has to somehow not spend your days filled with anger and also do some research on what practical things you can do to lower your FSH to improve your result for your next blood test and just work to make your upcoming IVF a success so that you don't spend your life in anger. I personally have read many amazing studies about DHEA online and I am taking that now. It takes some time to take effect so I really recommend you start that ASAP. Some others also swear by wheat grass shots. I tried it once - disgusting. But if you are keen to get your FSH down to give you some hope with your next blood result, perhaps that is something you are willing to try?

It's the feb 2015 bloods that show high FSH. I'm still waiting for them to give me a copy of my 2012 results, which are apparently in their shed and not computerised.

In the UK the GP gives you a blood test form and we go to the hospital who take the bloods and then send results to the GP. We then call the GP about a week later to obtain the results, or if the GP sees the results are not normal, sends a letter home asking patient to make an appointment ASAP. There is no direct contact between the patient and the lab.

I already drink wheatgrass, have been for about a year. Didn't know it lowered FSH until now though! I just drink it as part of my 'healthy lifestyle'

I will look into the DHEA thank you.
And yes it's the anger in feeling. I have a constant knot in my stomach, and I don't want to talk to or see anyone. I feel like I have to plaster on a fake happy smile like yeh everything's okay when it's not.

People say that I should just be grateful I have one child. I am bloody grateful but that doesn't mean I shouldn't want another!

Thanks for reading my posts. I know there are people out there so much worse off then me. But I can't control the way I am feeling. These are my feelings.

Sunshine I completely understand. I am of course VERY grateful for my DS - he is ace. Which is why I want to give him a little brother or sister to play with.

Anyway, update. It is day 28 of my cycle which has only once run to 31 days in the last 2.5years. I have had some spotting but no AF. I feel like I'm about to come on but it's not happened yet so I am torturing myself by googling things like "period symptoms in pregnancy". This is not healthy or good.

I am trying to get a private appointment with a consultant but it's weirdly difficult to get past the NHS. I'm desperately trying to give them money and they keep referring me back. Very frustrating. I ended up emailing the consultant directly and begging for help which, pleasingly, he immediately gave me.

I am going to spend the rest of the evening running back and forth to the bathroom to check for AF.

Champagne I really really hope you get your BFP!! I drive myself mental every month googling and looking out for pregnancy symptoms.

Really hope that this is the month for you!!

You are totally entitled to feel this way even though there are people worse than you out there sunshine. I feel exactly the same way. People say to me too 'be grateful for one'. What is that supposed to mean? That I don't love my son enough to be wanting another child?? I think they mean well and just don't know what to say, but it's so frustrating. It's nice to chat on here where we all have one child. I am on other IVF forums for support while I go through IVF, but I feel bad complaining when some women are suffering primary infertility and would just be grateful for the child I have when they don't have any. So it's lovely to rant on here to those who understand.

I didn't realise you already drink wheatgrass - it's disappointing then that this obviously doesn't work to lower FSH if your recent result was high. But I guess wheat grass is just a supplement where as DHEA is an actual hormone and where I have read about it, I read the science behind how it helps recruit more antral follicles. But for me, I have had ultrasounds and my ovaries are normal size meaning they contain normal amount of eggs, so my issue is low blood supply to the ovaries as I always have cold hands and feet and very light periods. If you ovaries are actually small meaning they have low egg reserve, not sure if DHEA can help. But still, can't hurt to read up about it and see if it is something you want to try.

Champagne, I know how much that drives you mad while waiting for your period. I used to be exactly like that but perhaps because I have been struggling with secondary infertility for much longer, I am past that stage now and have no faith that it will happen naturally. I still make sure I have sex at ovulation just in case, but I just expect my period and put all my hopes into my next/last IVF cycle. Let us know how you get on with this private consultant.