grandparent new laws

[ednamode]

Hi

Really worried. I have deliberately cut myself away from family to get my life together as they were dragging us down with their disgusting attitude. and I have managed after years of pain to get our lives on track. Now I hear that this stupid government wants to give grandparents automatic rights to see their grandchildren, this is not a good thing for everyone infact for some of us it will cause real issues. What action can i take. and please no "well may be things have changed" answers i am not in the ball park for platitudes, this is serious.

many thanks

Notanotter - being a victim of abuse yourself does not mean you are right about all child protection matters. And I thought it was against MN etiquette to make personal attacks on posters - not that it matters to me.

no but the word always in your posting suggests ALWAYS

that is a statement of fact Nina and it is WRONG

but being a SW makes you always right about CP matters....

I note you don't address my points about your Aunt Sally arguments, which are tiresome and deliberately obfuscatory and the fact that many children do love their abusers. And of course they are happy and excited to see them. Each time their abusive parent is nice to them, they feel hope that this is what it will be like from now on. Jesus, even when they're adults, many children of abusive parents keep hoping their abusive parent will love them and stop being abusive to them. Children don't give up hope quicker than adults do.

(breathes again)

thanks HerBeatitude

Someone brought this up a while back and I remember posting I was worried about this happening as if anything happened to xh then his mother would do just that go to court to get access to ds but since xh has died she hasnt we have managed to sort it out, but even now without this law in place grandparents have a vested interest so if I did stop her seeing ds she could take me back to court for access, all I can do is hope we stay on good terms for that never to happen.

"Is there any possibility of us finding some middle ground....... "

"You keep setting up this Aunt Sally of Atlantis and others characterising all SWs as being incompetent idiots. I don't think anyone has consistently argued that POV on any of these threads, but you insist on pretending they have because obviously anyone who thought that would be an idiot."

I agree with HB. Middle ground can only be found when you stop going on the attack. I don't attack posters unless they do it first but you seem to follow people around the threads trying to pick us off one by one, your not interested in debating what's wrong with the system just defending all social workers.

No one has said all social workers are useless, all social workers snatch children or all social workers should be sacked. Everyone accepts that there is a genuine need for sw's and the job they do saves and changes children's lives but..

We all know the system is (to put it politely) flawed, Laming has made it impossible for sw's to function under the present system. The government made it a priority to get adoptable children through the system for payment and some (not all) LA's became gung ho (personally I blame the management in those LA's), some sw's do have a god complex, some sw's shouldn't be charged with putting together a 'happy meal' let alone child protection and until their is proper accountability and the system is changed and the rotten sw's are tossed out no one is going to recognise sw for all the good it does.

Only when good sw's stand up and yes, 'rat' out the bad ones, when we have more whistleblowers standing up on mass and saying 'this is wrong' will attitudes change.

OK - no middle ground - I think you do make personal attacks Atlantis - really quite unpleasant ones and a recent one on me was reported to MN. You may not have said in so many words that all social workers are useless but the inference is clear that this is what you think.

You seem to have this notion of "good" and "bad" social workers. I don't see it in those terms - as in all professions, some individuals are going to be more competent than others - do you not recognise this as part of life..........do you not accept there is a variance in teachers, doctors, nurses, lawyers, accountants etc etc. I think most people would accept this and that we have to work around this the best way we can.

You talk of "good social workers" "ratting" out the "bad" ones - I have met social workers who I have thought might be better doing a different job but the notion of "ratting" them out is just so inappropriate in my view.

Incidentally I don't understand this concept of Aunt Sally that you and HB talk about but I don't think there is any point in any further debate between us.

" really quite unpleasant ones and a recent one on me was reported to MN. "

I called you a Troll and told you to crawl back under your rock, after you attacked me for posting opinions you didn't like.

Definition of Troll = In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community.

I stand by my assertion.

I understand you have also had a run in with MN lately.

"as in all professions, some individuals are going to be more competent than others - do you not recognise this as part of life..........do you not accept there is a variance in teachers, doctors, nurses, lawyers, accountants etc etc."

Yes, as I had already said in my previous posting this is true and I would hope that collegues in those professions also took action, but were not speaking of those were speaking of sw.

"I think most people would accept this and that we have to work around this the best way we can."

I don't accept it, I think it needs changing, if there's a rotten apple you need to throw it out because it will cause damage to the others around it.

"I have met social workers who I have thought might be better doing a different job but the notion of "ratting" them out is just so inappropriate in my view."

Is it more appropriate for that sw to go on and make a life altering/ defining moment for a child? Does it not matter that a child could be left (as re Baby Peter) to die at the hands of it's carer/ parent because people looked the other way? Or a child was taken and then an adoption order issued against a good parent because someone looked the other way?

Inappropriate would be to pass wind in a lift. Appropriate would be to do your job and try to ensure all children get the very best.

Nananina an Aunt Sally is an argument that no-one has made. It is set up by someone in order to argue against it logically and coherently, but it is unnecessary and irrelevant, because no-one made the argument in the first place. It is often used in public debate in order to make one's opponent look foolish, because by definition, the argument set up will almost invariably be wrong-headed and plainly ridiculous. It is also used as a tactic to get people to argue about the Aunt Sally, rather than about the original issue.

Your contention that so many people on MN are determined to paint the whole of the SW profession as idiots or knaves, fits into the definition of an Aunt Sally, because there is not one person I can ever remember coming across, who holds that view, yet you continually refute it, repetitively and unnecessarily. And it's quite successful, because you can normally get quite a few people to stray off the subject of the original thread and post the bleedin' obvious, which is that of course they don't think all SW's are fools or knaves. Which makes a thread disjointed and incoherent and only the most determined and committed of posters will continue to try and debate the genuine issues raised in the thread.

HTH.

Oh OK Atlantis and HerB - I give up with both of you - it is all too tedious and I have better things to do with my time that engage in this pointless point scoring exercise.

I haven't had a "run in" with MN - it is true I was e mailed and asked if I could maybe "tone down" my posts in relation to JH as the debate with him was getting a little heated. I did not take exception to this at all - I thought it was a valid comment to make and I followed the advice.

Hi all, if anyone can give me some advice I would very much appreciate some. My parents are currently looking after my children whilst I had to re-locate for work purposes. My son who is 9 wants to come home to me, but my parents who have always favoured my daughter aged 12 have encouraged and manipulated her to remain with them. When I asked why she didn't want to come back home, her reply was well my nanan does everything for me. My father has always been a controlling and abusive man has now threatened to get a residency order to stop me from exercising my parental rights. My daughter is not attending school and hasn't done so for the past eight weeks because she has been bullied so my parents saw fit to permanently remove her without resolving the issues. I am distraught. Everytime I call to speak to my daughter she is abusive and disrespectful towards me, very similar in fact to how my father is with me and my partner. I am at my wits end and have been fighting my parents for the past six weeks to get this resolved without any success.

Amy I suggest you set up a new thread in Legal or relationships so that people don't trawl through this old thread and miss your post.

HerBeatitude many thanks, my first time on here so thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

Hi,

My kids nan, on my hubby's side, visits once in a blue moon (very rarely), l understand that she has her own life. The problem is she promises to take our kids out and then lets them down and then turns it around on us by saying to the kids 'your mum and dad didn't call me' its the first l have heard about having to phone! why should we need to call anyway, she should just pop over to collect them as arranged. It then turns out that she has made other arrangements that day and thats why she let kids down.

She has gone on holiday for a month to another country, but doesn't take any interest in what the kids have been doing what so ever when she comes home, this leaves me so frustrated! The kids are getting to the age now where they realise they are being ignored and then they get upset and ask me why nanny doesn't listen to them.

We have made it clear how we feel to her, but nothing ever changes, she just takes it for granted that she has rights to see her grandchildren when ever she likes! But surely she should be getting more involved with them, they are not accessories that she can pick up when she wants to... any advice please would be appreciated as l am lost on what to do about this situation, l want to do the best for everyone, mainly our kids.

Sorry if l have ranted to much, it just makes me feel so angry as l feel l can't do anything about this one as she does have rights at the end of the day.

Louise xx

zombie thread

Hi this is to Amy1969

It sounds as if you are in a really difficult situation, what ever you say you seem to be made the bad one. Firstly, your parents can get in trouble for keeping your daughter off school for so long, this situation needs to be resolved in a legal way, l know this from experience.

If this situation doesn't improve after trying to talk to your parents and explaining that this is out of order what they are doing and is hurting both you and your daughter and probably your son as well, if they are not prepared to listen, then maybe you should seek legal advice. If your father has threatened you about a residency order, what else are they capable of doing... l am certain you have rights in this situation. What harm is seeking advice going to do, at least then you will be clear of your rights as a mum.

Could you not arrange a meeting with your daughter where you can be alone, as l feel maybe she can't say what she really wants to as they could be controlling her and she could feel awkward talking in front of them maybe. Be strong your not the one in the wrong here, your parent seem to be acting unfairly and are not considering anyone's feelings.

Louise x

Dear God, If a court ever ordered that my mother had a right to see my children I'm bloody move to Mars!

She's one evil piece of work

a Mck cannot speak for the parent in court but can advice the parent they do not act as a solictor duirng court proceedings, my brother acted as my mck in court.

What a sorry state, reading most of this has made me so sad for your children, how selfish too. If you fell out with your parents, why should the child miss out. No wonder so many children today feel isolated, we all need a family that is well balanced. Children learn from you and if they witness you not bothering with your parents, they too will do the same painful things to you. I believe grand parents should have rights, if your doing things right and your children are happy, what have you got to worry about. Sometimes your feelings should be buried for the children sake

this is possibly what is happening to us

Hi - I know this post is from a few year ago - and I don't want to get in a debate about with Tezzie above - as I don't think you can be that generic.

...does anyone know of any parent support groups? My husband and myself are unaminous in not wanting one set of grandparents to see our children - long story. We are not separated and divorced - in fact we are very happily married - yet everything we read seems to be talking about 'grandparents rights'. We will probably have to go to court this year, as the in laws are threatening this, in order to defend our rights as parents and our decisions (we have very valid reasons which for personal and legal reasons I can't go into). We haven't the money for this but earn over the 8k threshold for legal aid.
We feel increasingly isolated about this - if anyone is in a similar situation please pm or if you know of any support groups let me know :)
It's such a shame that there is a blanket law. All we keep reading about is Grandparents Alliance and Pro Grandparents groups etc. Surely parents rights should come first? Especially when both the dad and mum are in agreement? xxx

Hi Littlemissexcited5. This is a very old thread so may not get any replies and I don't want you to think that no one cares. If you want to start a new thread then I'm sure that mumsnetters will be able to hold your hand or guide you in the right direction.