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Original poster

Co-Sleeping - Apparently "especially dangerous" with babies less than three months

95 replies

RockinSockBunnies · 10/12/2008 16:45

Just came across this online. Whilst I appreciate the dangers of drinking/taking drugs and co-sleeping, surely it's somewhat draconian to condemn all parents that choose to co-sleep with babies less than three months?

In addition, the death of the sixteen-month baby seems odd. Most babies this age are crawling if not walking and unlikely to be rolled upon by someone who has had a 'moderate' amount to drink.

These articles make me really cross . I co-slept with DD from birth, read numerous books on the subject whilst pregnant and consulted as many people about it as possible. I don't appreciate having my decision labelled 'especially dangerous'.

OP posts:
whomovedmychocolate · 10/12/2008 16:49

Sad story but overblown - of course if you are pissed and stoned you shouldn't cosleep but sounds like the baby may have already been ill.

constancereader · 10/12/2008 16:50

christ, i had no intention of co-sleeping until i realised dd just wiil not sleep in any other way

articles like that scare me tbh, even though i know better really...

SpookyMadMummy · 10/12/2008 18:22

There was a similar case reported in our local paper last week. No alcohol was involved in that case, and both parents were non smokers iirc. The local coroner basically said the same thing about co-sleeping, that it was dangerous etc etc.
Very sad stories.

TheCrackFox · 10/12/2008 19:20

It is very sad, however, some babies die whilst sleeping in cots and we don't see any articles in the press condemning cots.

NorthernLurkerwithastarontop · 10/12/2008 19:28

The coroners in these cases always seem to attack the co-sleeping without stressing the other risk factors. It's a terrible tragedy for them but what were the parents of that 3 month old thinking to both get so drunk? How could you even think you would able to care for a baby in that state? Very, very sad.

cory · 10/12/2008 19:46

So if both parents had been stone sober and the baby died in its cot, what would the coroner have said then?

If cot beds happen to X percent of the population, and Y percent of babies co-sleep, and Z percent of parents have the occasional drink/joint, then presumably among all the X deaths, you are going to find a certain amount of XYZ deaths?
(unless there were special safeguarding properties in co-sleeping and the inhaling of herbals substances)

kazbeth · 10/12/2008 19:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NorthernLurkerwithastarontop · 10/12/2008 20:02

Cory - whatever the coroner said it wouldn't have been reported because the media don't report every cot death inquest - just the ones where there is something of note to throw about.

MrsMattie · 10/12/2008 20:07

It does seem to still be the official line, doesn't it?

When I was discharged from hospital this time (DD born 3 weeks ago) the midwife did her little discharge chat, which included 'We do not recommend co-sleeping. The safest place for your baby to sleep is in a cot in your bedroom, for at least the first 6 months.'

OxyMoron · 10/12/2008 20:14

There was a good article on this FSID recommendation here

GoodWilfToAllMN · 10/12/2008 20:16

But the thing is, it isn't 'especially dangerous' is it, to co-sleep with your baby, at any age?

What they mean here is that some things increase the risk very slightly (and I believe smoking and heavy drinking increase it the most). And since the risk is pretty small to begin with, the notion of something being 'especially dangerous' gets misunderstood. If something has a 0.01 per cent chance of happening and another factor increases its likelihood by 10 per cent that means it will have a 0.011 chance of happening (only a tiny fraction more). Or if it increases the risk by ten times, it will still only be a 0.1 percent risk. So for every 1000 babies for whom all the risk factors are present, one might sadly suffer SIDS... I don't know what the actual figures are but we have to see 'risk' in context. To report something as 'especially dangerous' can be misleading, implying say 'lots' of babies could die in these circumstances...

And see this report of new research, with our very own Justine commenting

constancereader · 10/12/2008 20:20

Thanks for that GoodWilfToAllMN. I was starting to get anxious all over again.

I even bought dd an Amby nest but she isn't having any of it. She will ONLY sleep propped up on my chest, I have no choice in the matter. I keep having hideous anxiety dreams about her.

ilovemydog · 10/12/2008 20:23

Excessive tiredness - 'less than 4 hours sleep the night before'

In which case, this would mean that most mothers would be banned from co sleeping

But it's a bit of a no brainer - I don't drink and drive. I don't sleep with my baby if I'm pissed. Duh...

purplemonkeydishwasher · 10/12/2008 20:25

how do they think babies sleep in most of the world?? seriously.

GoodWilfToAllMN · 10/12/2008 20:25

The new research reports the key risk factors, and any sensible co-sleepers will of course take steps to remove/reduce these:

no smoking
no drinking/drugs
no gaps etc
remove pillows and make duvets inaccessible etc.
very very heavy sleepers shouldn't be in the bed
watch out for falling
try not to sleep on the sofa with your child where they could get wedged...

If all of these factors are removed (and they weren't in those first cases on the thread) I imagine the actual risk is negligible.

givethedogachristmaspudd · 10/12/2008 20:26

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Message withdrawn

hollyivypoppy34 · 10/12/2008 20:33

it does seem particularly sensationalist. out of interest what do others do to get round the bedding issue -

didn't cosleep with dd properly (let her go to sleep on me then put in a cot) but can see that it woudl save a lot of hassle if I have another to do it in first three months.

plus the lancet thing backed up what one of the mw said to me in hospital (whcih was put baby next to me and let her suckle) as that was what they did back home (she was from overseas).

purplemonkeydishwasher · 10/12/2008 20:37

givethedog - that is incredibly sad about your sister. I am so sorry that your family had to go through that.

But cot death happens. It happens in cots as well as in the parents bed. When my baby was beside me in bed I could check on him all night. i just put my hand out and he was there. It made me feel better knowing that he was inches away from me.

wannaBe · 10/12/2008 20:38

I do think there's an element of parents only listening to the advice they want to listen to though.

Most parents on here would say that it's advisable to have baby sleep in with parents until six months, to have baby sleep on their back, to bf exclusively until six months and are quick to point out the risks/downfalls for anyone who openly admits to going against this advice.

But people seem to have a blind spot where co sleeping is concerned. The advice is clearly stated that co sleeping is not advised and that if parents must co sleep then definitely not under most circumstances (no drink/smoke/tiredness/duvet/pillows doesn't leave a lot of circumstances under which co sleeping is safe). And anyone suggesting that co sleeping isn't safe is rubbished.

Yet if someone wrote an artacle saying that putting baby in their own room before six months was dangerous everyone would be agreeing with them whole-heartedly.

Why is that?

nancy75 · 10/12/2008 20:39

agree with wannabe, if someone says that bf guidelines are rubbish they are jumped on from a great height, why is this different?

givethedogachristmaspudd · 10/12/2008 20:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

spicemonster · 10/12/2008 20:53

Is there any evidence that co-sleeping is dangerous bar the rolling over and squashing the baby in the night? I could never find any when I was searching for info

wannaBe · 10/12/2008 20:54

I have a theory...

All the other things that are advised are also things that are lovely bonding experiences. so:

breastfeeding is a bonding experience, so going against that is almost like missing out on that experience.

Having baby sleeping in a cot next to your bed/in a moses basket just next to you means baby is close and you can reach out and touch them and know that they are there. Again, a potential bond thing, and putting baby in their own room means having them further away, so again, missing out on that experience...

Co-sleeping however is the opposite. There are lots of people who said that co-sleeping was a lovely bonding experience for them, being able to have their baby right next to them there at night and being able to reach out and touch them/cuddle them in the night. So advising against that means taking away that potential bonding experience, in the same way that advising to stop bf/put baby in own room...

catweazle · 10/12/2008 21:01

I started co-sleeping entirely by accident after a c-section. I hadn't planned to but just couldn't get in or out of bed holding the baby. Night one DH rolled over with his usual flailing arm and was immediately banished from the bed to keep DD safe.

These cases are very sad but the first couple were downright stupid and it sounds like the second child was sick. I would be interested to see the stats of what proportion of "cot deaths" occur in adults beds and what proportion of co-sleeping babies die (compared to those that don't)

ilovemydog · 10/12/2008 21:03

WannaBe - I don't understand what you are saying. I think the advice saying that co sleeping is dangerous is alarmist.