Jews being hunted on streets of Amsterdam

[RatitesUnite]

Horrific footage all over social media of baying mobs hunting down Jews and beating them unconscious on the streets of Amsterdam.

Never again is now. Weak fearful police forces and politicians have allowed this poison to fester all over the western world. Absolute disgraceful scenes on the streets of so called tolerant Europe.

edition.cnn.com/2024/11/07/europe/israel-soccer-fans-attacked-amsterdam-intl-hnk/index.html

It is really not as simple as you are implying. The ICJ cannot demand Israel do this without some sort of peace agreement being established between the two sides. I do not think they are considering the fact that weapons are being imported with the intention of attacking Israel into some of these regions. That terrorist groups are operating there who want to kill as many Jews as possible. Some military occupation is normal under these circumstances. Also Israel is not committing genocide, targeting terrorists is not genocide by definition.

Not that it justifies violence and killing innocents but it is debatable whether the conflict is even about land. As articulated by this Palestinian doctor and many others:

With all due respect you have come onto a forum regarding the extreme violence demonstrated against Jews recently and proceeded to state how jews are the aggressors and to blame for everything. To somehow justify this hatred and violence we are seeing across Europe. You are in no position to call anyone else biased or extreme.

With all due respect I was answering the post above mine that stated that it isn't black and white who the occupiers are, it is right there in the post that I quoted. If you want to play at being the thread police deciding which posts on threads people can answer then crack on but I'm off to bed.

I think it’s pretty obvious what you were doing is blaming Israel for the entire conflict. And that is simply not ok. You can quote the ICJ all you want, it proves nothing. These are quotes from people who have their own opinions that may well be biased. The ICJ are not always the most morally sound and have their own motives.

As I have said before this forum is regarding jews being hunted down and attacked. You know the minority group who were actually subjected to a genocide in Europe not that long ago. Maybe consider how Jews in Europe must be feeling right now.

This forum is mumsnet. It's a place where you reply to posts on threads and have discussions. That's exactly what I was doing. If you want to try and police my posts like I said crack on but I'm not interested.

I am not policing your posts, I am telling you that you are wrong which I am entitled to do. I think the anti Israel sentiment to your posts are distasteful considering the topic on this forum.

Thanks for clearing it up, your post did come across as thread policing. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, that is what a forum is for after all

It does seem like you are policing that poster.

It does seem like that poster has a point of view.

It does seem different from yours.

The poster has backed up her argument.

After that, you have accused her of being anti Israeli.

Argue the point not the person.

Not cool.

I am not policing anything, I just disagree with what she is saying. I am allowed to do that on a forum. She is quoting a ridiculous demand made by the ICJ to basically withdraw when a terrorist group still have their hostages and are still attacking them along with Hezbollah and Iran. My point is Israel do got have a choice in withdrawing until these terrorist groups stop attacking them and a peace agreement is reached. She also quoted the genocide argument. There is no genocide in Palestine!!!! Attacking a terrorist organisation is NOT genocide, they are not aiming at civilians. I think it is an insult to accuse a group who were subjected to a genocide where 6 million of their people were hunted down and killed of committing genocide when they are not. You can disagree with some of what Israel have done but you cannot say the overall goal is genocide, it is clearly not. It feels very much like history is repeating itself and the Jews are a number one target atm, people are excusing it and turning a blind eye. And that is a serious concern here in Europe considering our history. Jews are very much a minority group globally and I think they should be protected better than they have been.

I also think people should stop coming on forums discussing serious violence against Jews recently in Europe just to justify the violence. And the anti Israel nonsense is a disgusting attempt to justify the anti semitic racist violence we have seen in Amsterdam.

@Panda “There is no genocide in Palestine!!!! Attacking a terrorist organisation is NOT genocide, they are not aiming at civilians.”

Israel itself proved they are targeting civilians by their targeted Hezbollah take down. If they can take out the entire leadership by placing and successfully exploding their pagers they can also take out Hamas without killing every woman. Hold doctors and journalist in the strip as well as bombing it back to prehistory.

They are targeting civilians.

They are murders.

you clearly omitted to say that they were chanting racist slurs and saying they are no more school in Gaza because all kids have been killed. in my opinion, they only got what they deserved. They can’t cry now.

@yesmen Maybe they could target Hamas without killing civilians if Hamas did not hide in their tunnels beneath civilians. They built them like this to maximise civilian deaths so I blame the jihadis for this.

@Sab06 This is just an excuse and a pitiful one to say the least. First of all the Arab mob who attacked the Jews did not specifically target people who did those things. They took to the streets and attacked any Jew they could find, they didn’t even need to be Israeli. They also attacked a British man because he helped a Jew get up. This was just another example of anti semitic racist violence we have been seeing across Europe for some time. Secondly chanting things and pulling down flags does not condone physical violence anyway. We have pro Palestinians burning the British flag in the uk even today on Remembrance Day. Do you think we are going to go out and hunt down all pro Palestinians to use their head as a football and run them over? No because we are not animals. Thirdly the attack on Jews was planned well in advance by the mob. A messaging app was used to announce a “Jew hunt”.

Keep making excuses for every attack the Jews are subjected to but I can assure you most of us in the west are not ok with it. We are not ok with Israel getting all the blame for the conflict, for Hamas being described as freedom fighters, with the anti semitic chants and violence being directed at Jews in our countries. We are not going to tolerate anti semitism.

@Panda1222

So I presume the next time there is a shooter in a school in the States the course of action will be to blow up the school regardless of who is there because they need to get the terrorist?

Is that the way of the future?

Or is that just reserved for the children of Gaza?

A shooter in a school is not the same as a terrorist organisation who are billionaires. Who are trained to fight and have built complex tunnels that make it very difficult to get to them. The comparison you have make is laughable and demonstrates the lack of common sense we are seeing all the time from the anti Israel lot. A lot of the information being shared about the conflict is coming from Hamas themselves and I will not allow a terrorist organisation to control the narrative.

Why don’t you start an anti Israel forum elsewhere, not spew this nonsense on a thread regarding Jews being hunted down and attacked. The nerve of people like you has no limits.

Looking at your posts on this thread, it appears you don't understand the international conventions on war. Those conventions don't actually apply to this conflict as it is not classed as an international conflict, but let's look at them anyway.

We know that Hamas put military installations in schools, hospitals and other civilian sites. We know that they use the civilian population of Gaza as human shields. This is a war crime.

If Hamas has sited a military installation in a civilian setting, Israel is permitted to attack it provided it is to achieve a military objective and the action is not disproportionate. Israel has overstepped the mark at times, so some of their attacks have been war crimes, but it is not as simple as saying that every attack on a school, hospital or similar is a war crime.

If we look at how this conflict flared up, it started when Hamas launched attacks on Israel including attacking a music festival. There was no military installation at the music festival. It may be that a minority of those attending were off duty members of the military, but the vast majority were not. This attack was a war crime.

Other attacks were aimed at kibbutzim and moshavim. There were no military installations at any of the targets. These attacks were war crimes.

We know that the Hamas fighters executed some wounded individuals at point blank range as they crouched on the ground. This was a war crime (although I wouldn't be surprised to find that Israeli forces had also committed this crime).

Men and women were gang raped during the attack. This was a war crime.

The bodies of a number of those who had been killed were paraded through the streets of Gaza. This was a war crime.

A number of hostages were also paraded through the streets of Gaza. This was a war crime.

In one of your earlier posts you say that Israel exists, as if this is somehow a killer point. Yes, Israel does exist, but the Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement, which was issued by Hamas in 1988 and sets out the organisations aims, calls for the obliteration or dissolution of Israel. It also rejects any possibility of a negotiated settlement. Hamas released a "Document of General Principles" in 2017 which is a little more moderate, but it does not repudiate or replace the original Covenant and, although it does not directly call for the destruction of Israel, it is clear that this is the only way its goals can be achieved.

Israel is also, of course, under attack from Hezbollah which, like Hamas, is backed by Iran. Hezbollah also aims to destroy Israel. Its armed strength is considered to be equivalent to a medium-sized army, and it is thought to be stronger than the Lebanese Armed Forces.

Has Israel committed war crimes? Yes. I would not seek to defend everything Israel has done. Some of Israel's actions have clearly been wrong. Even where Israel has complied with the rules of war, some of their actions have been misguided. But a simple position of "Palestinians good, Israel bad" is, at best, misinformed and, at worst, antisemitic.

@Panda1222 I agree with many of the points you have made. But what I cannot understand, and this is something a previous poster alluded to, is the following: Israel is capable of finding killing terrorists with pinpoint precision without harming innocent people. I've seen and read about Israeli military resources being utlised to target and kill a heavily protected terroist sitting in his house, in a car or in a compound. The recent pager blow-ups showed that they can reach their targets through ingenious methods.

So why must tens of thousands of Palestian women, children and literal babies be slaughtered as Israel attempts to kill terrorists in Gaza? There must surely be an alternative to this? Yes, Hamas are using these civilians as human shields. But even if they are hiding in tunnels and hiding behind civilians, how can bombing and destroying schools, residential buildings and hospitals where babies and children are being treated be justified? How will slaughtering innocent people help the hostages? We know Hamas is completely unmoved by the death of civilians so continuted bombardments are not going to to compel them to release the hostages.

Can you genuienly not understand why people are angry about this and why the word genocide is being used to describe what is happening today? There just seems to be a complete lack of empathy.

And this argument that the Palestians chose this path as they elected Hamas...the last elections were 20 years ago. There is an entire generation of people who didn't vote for them or choose them as their leaders and their lives are being completely destroyed.

Couldn’t agree more, fully blaming Israel is extremely wrong. There are certain facts that cannot be ignored. You’ll notice these people say NOTHING about Hamas. I honestly think this is because they support Hamas and what they have done which is definitely anti semitism.

So you know for sure they would be able to kill terrorists and zero civilians? How do you know that? Are you military trained and know the regions well? I very much doubt that. You are talking nonsense!!!! No army in the world has ever managed to go into a country and just kill members of a deadly terrorist organisation without killing any civilians. In fact the British and American armies killed many more civilians per terrorists. It is estimated they killed 3-4 civilians per terrorists in Afghanistan while Israel have estimated to have killed 1 civilian per terrorist. And that says a lot considering the tunnels. Israel were in a lose lose situation. If they didn’t strike the terrorists who were hiding in tunnels would carry out an October 7th over and over again as promised. If they did strike many civilians were bound to get caught up in it as it was set up by Hamas this way. You mention 10s of thousands civilians being killed, a lot of these are believed to be actual terrorists. Hamas has been largely defeated in Gaza thankfully indicating a lot of the terrorists have been killed.

I know Israel have not done everything perfectly but war is messy. All armies have committed war crimes at some point. But the anti Israel and anti Jew attitude from people atm is anti semitic. Israel and the Jews are not to blame for everything, it is obscene to keep saying this especially on forums about Jews being attacked!!!! I have had enough listening to this nonsense. It’s just pure hatred towards one group.

I didn’t say zero civilians. I questioned the need to kill thousands.

If you truly believe Hamas has been defeated I’m afraid you are delusional. Israel will never know peace whilst it continues on this path but I can see it’s pointless debating this as any criticism of Israel = anti-semitism so I’ll leave it there.

I have never been anti Israel in my life.

I have a moral compass though.

I see that this Israeli government is morally bankrupt.

I see that Gaza is razed to the ground.

I see that the people of Gaza today, and the future generations are being deliberately destroyed by a combination of terror and starvation, used as a weapons.

I see that no witnesses are allowed.

I see no restraint because "Hamas are hiding there so we have to kill everyone".

I recognize racial hatred when I see it.

I recognize manipulation when I see it.

I recognize history repeating itself when I see it.

I know who the victims are in the invasion.

And I saw a few nasty football ultras, absolved of their sins, turned into saints, airlifted out, go home, and brag about killing the children in Tel Aviv airport. All the while being cheered on by others.

The nerve of people like you knows no limits.

You had me up to this point - "Even where Israel has complied with the rules of war, some of their actions have been misguided".

Israel is "misguided" really shows your blind spot actually and puts forward a simple position of "Israelis good, Palestinians bad" and, at best, is misinformed and, at worst, anti Arab.

Is it really only possible to only feel, that the absolute destruction of a weak country by a strong country is driven by hatred of Jews? It is so utterly insulting.

I come from a war zone by the way. I have this thins in my life time.

I presume that is in reference to me - you are starting to make me mad.

I am no Hamas supporter and reject the premise of your binary argument - do not support the Israeli government and its demolition of the people of Gaza ? Must be Hamas supporters or anti semitic.

Do you apply that to the Israelis, protesting their government?

I have denounced Hamas enough and do not need to trot it out every time I make a point.

But you need to stop calling me an anti semite, because it is beginning to sound like hate speech, beginning to sound like a way to shut down and disparage my comments, and beginning to sound like bullying.

You mention 10s of thousands civilians being killed, a lot of these are believed to be actual terrorists.

Successful propaganda tool 1 - turn most of the population of Gaza into "terrorists" so we can kill them. Tens of thousands sounds like an army by the way, not a terrorist organization.

Hamas has been largely defeated in Gaza thankfully indicating a lot of the terrorists have been killed.

So continued bombing is just for fun? Food, water and medical supply blockade is being lifted? Journalists are allowed in to document? Medical people can go in? Witnesses can go in?

I know Israel have not done everything perfectly but war is messy.

"Perfectly" and "messy" really demonstrate how skewed your bias is on this issue. How little humanity you have for men, women and children who have been devastated by this.

I know every Israeli hostage by name. I know their life story. I know who their grieving family is. I pray for them every night.

But I am aware that I do not know any of the Gaza dead. They are not allowed their humanity. They are only a number.

Thanks for demonstrating your mindset by taking one sentence out of context and suggesting I said something completely different from my actual point. My previous sentences stated clearly that Israel has committed war crimes and that some of what Israel has done is wrong. This sentence added that, even where they weren't absolutely wrong, some of their actions have been misguided.

My position is absolutely not "Israel good, Palestinians bad". I have not at any point said that all Israel's actions in Gaza are justified. They aren't. But, however much you may wish it to be otherwise, the current escalation was sparked by horrific war crimes committed by an organisation that wants to see the destruction if Israel (Hamas) that is supported by an organisation with the same aim (Hezbollah) and backed by Iran. That does not justify all of Israel's actions in Gaza by any means, but ignoring that and trying to make out that it is all Israel's fault is ridiculous.

Far from showing my blind spot, you are again demonstrating your own.

But, however much you may wish it to be otherwise, the current escalation was sparked by horrific war crimes committed by an organisation that wants to see the destruction if Israel (Hamas) that is supported by an organisation with the same aim (Hezbollah) and backed by Iran. That does not justify all of Israel's actions in Gaza by any means, but ignoring that and trying to make out that it is all Israel's fault is ridiculous.

You will get no argument from me that Hamas started this, that they committed horrific war crimes and deserve what they get. That was clear from the beginning and for me nothing has changed.

I do not try to ignore it, and I do not try to make it Israel's fault. Ever.

Israel has a right to respond.

I do not believe that response should be the total annihilation of Gaza and it's population.

That is surely easy enough to understand.