LGBT-is it right to group them?

[SJaNH]

So lots of threads at the moment on transgenderism......my kind of related question: What do gay, lesbian and bi people think about being grouped with transgender people? In my naive mind I see these as very different things. Isn't being attracted to someone of a different gender/sex (sorry as not sure what's the politically correct term anymore) completely different than wanting to change who you physically are?

I agree with you and part of me thinks it's high jacking, from the TRAs, to legitimise their agenda and automatically gain support from those who support LGB rights.

Lesbian, gay and bisexual are sexual orientations and to do with which sex you are attracted to, but being trans is about gender identity.

I think there's likely some overlap for many trans people when it comes to sexual orientation (at least the people I've known have never been 'just transgender', but that is a very small sample size!)... so although I don't think they're the same thing and probably shouldn't be grouped together, I can see why they have ended up that way.

CeeBeeBee...that's what I was thinking. Transgender are piggybacking onto all the progress that has been made with LGB in regards to equality and acceptance in society. But actually it's completely different and in my opinion should be dealt with completely separately.

I definitely think they should be separate. Entirely different things

I'm a gay woman and have long wanted to drop the T association for the reasons given, especially now there is a lunatic contingent trying to erase the L.

To say that, other than here, tends to invite accusations of being a TERF (I am by their criteria!).

They should absolutely be separate. I no longer like anything on fb that includes the term LGBT. So no more liking Pride etc.

I feel that if gay people are going for this then they can bash on without me as an ally. One of my best friends is a gay man, luckily he's gender critical but he isn't active or outspoken and I dare say he's typical. Why bring down shit on your own head.

Wtf erase the L? Who? What fresh hell is this?

Wasn't there a campaign last year by some gay men to drop the T because of the harm the TRAs were doing or did I imagine that?

Morris

The TRAs who say that lesbians are attracted to "women as a gender", not females, so if you are a lesbian who refuses to date a Transwoman who still has a penis, you are a vagina-fetishist and not a real lesbian.

metro.co.uk/2015/04/06/why-its-time-to-remove-the-t-from-lgbt-5116737/

www.change.org/p/human-rights-campaign-glaad-lambda-legal-the-advocate-out-magazine-huffpost-gay-voices-drop-the-t

Miranda Yardley just shared this...
(Must be lurking here!!)

mirandayardley.com/en/drop-the-t-and-the-great-lgbt-sell-out/

It used to be (and still is in some places), to medically transition one had to have same sex attraction (and in some cases was a punishment for it) - because then one would appear straight. Previously LGBT groups were all fighting from similar-ish points of view and many of the main leaders and people discussed trans with that assumption until fairly recently I think (some even saying trans should be a homosexual-only label due to culture and history with it being 'open minded' to view it fine for bisexual people as well even well into the '90s).

Recently there has been a major demographic shift (from near 100% being totally/predominantly same sex attracted as would have been recorded for decades to, in the last US study I read, less than a quarter identifying that way though there is an issue with rules in the states being widely different - some require a gender dysphoria diagnosis while others are self identifying) - I want to say 5 or so years it's gotten vocally different but it's highly variable by place.

I do think some of the newer groups are piggypacking on the work of previous trans groups that were more united and worked with the gay community that they were also part of - if that makes sense. I know older trans people who just don't recognize what is going on anymore. For them, I'm uneasy about dropping the T entirely but I do think there is room for LGB/same sex attraction discussion which would include those trans people. It's really weird how much it's all changed to me, I find myself wondering who benefits because it feels so forced - like conversations with trans people I've had just in the last year or so would now be drowned by calls that we're all TERFs.

That Miranda Yardley article is brilliant.