Day nursery may harm under-3s, say child experts

[Callisto]

From todays Telegraph (made the front page) thought you would all like a rant about it: torygraph

I have read about research into prolonged stress levels in young children causing emotional and psycological problems in later life before, but interesting to see it linked to attachement theory. IMO this is just common sense really.

"An eminent group of child-care experts raises serious concerns today about the long-term effects of putting very young children into inadequate day nurseries".

Surely there are concerns about putting a child of any age into 'inadequate' childcare of any sort?

Yes, I think the point is that inadequate is not enough one to one with a 'secondary attachment figure', changing staff to often, too many own age children to compete with for attention. After all a nursery can have all the latest gadgets, super-trained staff, warm, clean etc etc but if the child/baby isn't getting emotional input from a trusted person it is inadequate care.

i think it is the 'inadequate' elemnet that needs to be examined....there are some fantastic nurseries...the one my DS attended 4 yrs ago still has virtually all the same staff..and it has had an outstanding OFSTED report..aswell as amazing facilities...so i would have no qualms about putting DD in for a couple of mornings ....

not putting under 3s in child care...are these experts going to look after the under 3s then!

If you have no choice but to put your under 3 into nursery ...don't need to feel anymore guilty about it by this sort of thing!

wow another thing to stress parents out and make them feel guilty - just what they needed.

Surely any inadequate care is bad for children of any age.

Funny how they emphasised the putting children into nurseries part and not the inadequate part.

Agree the key word here is inadequate. I chose ds's nursery after seeing three different ones and half a dozen childminders. Ds's nursery just had that trustworthy feeling - the deputy manager/head of the baby room where he was reminded me of my own, beloved childminder when I was little. Obviously asked all the sensible questions too and read the Ofsted report.

He was a very happy, secure little boy while he was there (and still is). Sadly it started to go downhill and losing staff. By the time the second person he had a deep attachment to left, I decided to pull him out and luckily managed to employ said person as his nanny. The first person he loved there still sends him birthday and Christmas cards, phones and visits when she's back in the neighbourhood. So it is possible to have strong relationships with carers at nursery - you just have to find a good nursery with caring, sensible staff and a keyworker system. And keep an eye on it to make sure it stays that wayl.

I don't like putting my 2.8yr old son into nursery at all and wish I didn't have to do so. I think it is bad for him. It's a brilliant nursery and the staff are very caring and hands-on. But I still get that sad eyed look from him every single morning and when I go to pick him up afterwards he runs to me like he hasn't seen me in years!

Let's face it, there is nothing that is going to be better than children being brought up by their parents.

I'm not even going to read the report - they wheel this story out every few months. Next week they'll run a report about how the children of SAHMs are mentally understimulated, followed no doubt by some SHOCK EXCLUSIVE about how breast is best.....all gets a bit

Rhubarb, do you think that because you DS is in nursery that you are not bringing him up? My DS is in nursery, and I would never for one second think that he is being brought up by the carers there. Just interested to know.

I am not having the impact in his life that I would like to have. He is in nursery 4 days a week from 9am to 3.30pm and for me that is far too long, but without my steady income we wouldn't be able to get working families tax credit and just wouldn't be able to survive! Dh's job is not reliable.

There are things he does that I don't see, there are achievements that I am not involved in, he is learning from other people. This is not how it is meant to be in my mind and it saddens me.

I think Susie Orbach hit the nail on the head there. We don't value childcare enough, or the people who provide it. Its badly paid for the staff, yet still hugely expensive for parents. This needs to be recognised. Maybe articles like this can be used to apply pressure in the right places - policy makers; as opposed to the wrong ones - working parents.

Sorry you feel like that Rhubarb . I have days like that too, but try and stay positive and think about all the years ahead where we will still be the most important people and influences in their life (oh, and I keep playing the lottery, so I can give up tyhis work lark!!!! )

Tought this quote was interesting:"Rather than funding day-care nurseries through Sure Start, the Government should make it easier for parents to use their child-care allowances to pay a grandmother or other relative to look after their children, or to use it themselves as 'pay' to look after the child themselves." - not that I can see it happening with this government.

Message withdrawn

rhubarb...sorry you feel

Hi Rhubarb

yes I can see where you are coming from and agree with you

Yes, I think we were lucky to have a day nanny, the same one, for 10 years so there was that attachment and continuity. But a lot of factors affect children and I don't think good day nurseries for under 2s are going to be so terrible they should be banned. I still think that child minders, relatives, nannies are better for little babies.

My children are now nearly 11 and 7 and were in nursery 2 days a week from the ages of 4 and 6 months respectively , with me looking after them for 2 days and dh for one. We also had lots of qualms about the high turnover & poor treatment of staff and made our feelings known on several occasions, not that it did any good. However, they both loved their time there and still talk about their fond memories, eg recently ds wanted his room painted bright yellow, lime green, red and orange (not as bad as it sounds, actually!) & afterwards said he really liked it as it reminded him of his nursery, which he loved. I'm sure it did them good to have a range of experiences (& to be spared from having me every day!) & they did have a regular routine, even tho' each day was different. So there!

DD went to nursery from 9 months old, then local state schools, & is predicted all Grade As in GCSE's this year.

DS started with childminder at 9 months, went to nursery from 2.5 & just got into ocal grammar.

Both are well adjusted, well rounded kids.

DD's nursery was not available to DS. I checked out some alternatives, did not like & got a childminder. When she got pregnant, found a new nursery that I did like.

There are som terrible places out there, but also some fab ones. Look around. If you have to go to work you can do without reading these scare stories.

The idea of this horrifies me. DD1 was put into a nursery 3 days a week from 6 months of age. She had a very caring keyworker, and always seemed very happy and contented.

She had never cried when she was left there and even now she actually loves independent play, so it is conceivable that she didn't feel stressed.

But this is really an issue of availability and cost of childminders. To put two children with a childminder would cost me far more than the workplace nursery, which the govt has introduced a full tax deduction on.

I feel very sad that because it would cost me double to go with a childminder, it will have to be the nursery. I can't afford to give up work altogether. The fixed costs of living are too high for one salary.

As others have said thsi is the usual sensalionalist nonsnese. Surely an 'inadequate' childminder, or abusive parent is just as bad?

My dd is a very sociable child. I planned to have a day nanny for the various reasons mentioned, but she just loved company that i knew she had to go to nursery. We chose a very nice one, recommended by three friends and both children loved it there. They had a keyworker system and it worked really well for both of them. Thye never gave me a sad look and i could not persuade them to leave in the evenings!!!

i was in nursery school from the age of 18months every morning five days a week. it has only recently occurred to me that it was 'childcare' in any sense - i loved my teachers and i loved beign there. i used to run to my mum every day when she came to pick me up but i know for a fact that this was beacuse i was glad to see her and to show her my drawings etc. NOT because i had a miserable stressy time. does no-one else remember how much FUN nursery school was?
(i know i was only there in the mornings, but still...)

I used to hate the idea of day nurseries for tiny children. Mine all went to a cm from a few months of age. I wanted a home-like environment ? near as damn it one-to-one care etc. She was the most wonderful child carer I could have hoped for. She always kept them busy and stimulated ? more so than I can do as when I?m not working I am usualy busy with household cr*p! They all love her as much as either of their other grannies. However she retired in September and my youngest now goes to the nearby nursery ? I have been so impressed with the staff and facilities. He has a careworker who seems genuinely interested in his development and quite fond of him. All the other staff seem very caring too and always ready to answer any questions. Very different from my expectations as I was a bit reluctant. My DS#2 is 3.5 and sometimes I look at the very young ones and I do feel a bit of a pang ? not entirely sure why. They are cared for, entertained, fed. I think that if the care is good enough it isn?t a problem. And if both parents need to work it simply can?t be a problem.

When my DD was born, I was speaking to an elderly neighbour whose reaction to my announcning that I would be going back to work was ?another little one for someone else to bring up?. Was speechless at the time which was probably a good thing. Stupid old ! You find the best childcare available to you and hope that all is well. If a nursery is well run,? feels right? and is inspected regularly and your child is happy there I don?t think you need to worry too much. There are innumerable decision that you make along the way which may or may not affect your child?s future ? it is not possible or desirable to agonise over every one. As in so many areas parents do the best they can.