Migrants To Be Charged For A&E Services

[DoYouLikeMyBaubles]

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/dec/30/tourists-migrants-to-be-charged-emergency-care-nhs

Your thoughts?

I'm torn on this one.
It seems unfair, but at the same time the NHS is in so much debt they're unable to treat patients who live here adequately. Waiting list are too long etc etc.

I'm all for migrants coming here, due to the fact they must have a horrible life where they're from, to need to seek asylum elsewhere.

Perhaps they should contribute and pay something, like taxpayers have to.

Personally, as a nurse, I'm more concerned with expats who decide to come over when they want to get NHS treatment, sort of having their cake and eating it. Especially for pregnancy related things.

They're not supposed to do this, but it happens all the time.

I think we need a system that prevents it from being abused, but this seems a bit.. not well thought out.

Of course they should pay - they pay in every other country apart from Cuba, so why not?

well when my son was taken into hospital in another country as an emergency we were presented with a bill - why should the UK be different?

Good point nigellas

We have to have insurance anywhere else, I'm not sure why the UK has been the exception all this time.

The NHS don't want to do this because it means more paperwork. They really don't care that taxpayers pay for this. The new rules will also make it harder for expats to screw the system as well.

The thing is we're buried under paperwork as it is. In A&E especially where time is even more critical, it's going to be an immense strain on the areas that have more immigrants.

How long does it take a nurse to change a lightbulb? Ten minutes to change it, 15 to document the bloody thing.

But I agree they should pay. But I don't think it should be up to doctors and nurses on the front line to police it.

Who else is going to police it then?

I'm not sure I haven't thought it through, but we came in this job to care for people not police immigration and put through charges. It's yet another role being put onto us when we don't have enough time to do our jobs as it is.

I'm interested to know how it will work. How will they know who is a migrant and who isnt? My parents (for example) live in Spain, and an admitting A&E HCP would see English people speaking English who could give an address in England (probably mine).

My parents, BTW, are entitled to healthcare in Spain so it is unlikely to happen. But are HCP expected to quiz people closely if they're non-white, have an accent, have English as a second language... IIRC, the US healthcare system costs more than ours because of the burden of chasing up payment.

There's going to be claims of racism, I know that for a fact. We're going to need a helluva lot more translators, of which can take hours to appear, and are extremely costly.

One of the reasons you don't have the time to do your jobs as it is is because the NHS is completely messed up and leaching resources in all directions. The nation's health is not being well managed as there is no joined-up thinking to support preventative methods.

As a nurse you must be able to see the problems first hand, and one of the ways to deal with them is to make sure people are educated to prevent them needing so much treatment. The NHS has been given huge amounts of extra money in recent years I'd quite like to know where it's all gone.

Well yes I know that, which is why the Choose Well campaign was introduced but it's had little to no effect. We simply cannot control the general public and the decisions they make, it's really frustrating.

But paperwork is also a massive hindrance. I spend a huge amount of time doing it, some of it is ridiculous. One trust has decided to limit it by 80% which would be amazing if spread out amongst the board, but it begs the question why was it there in the first place?

This is just adding to the front line staffs responsibilities. I'd be all for it if they'd allocate different staff to it, ones trained to deal with it all correctly instead of leaving it to us when we have a thousand other things to do which in my eyes are much more pressing ie getting someone in pain some medication, triaging more patients, etc.

www.hsj.co.uk/hsj-local/acute-trusts/walsall-healthcare-nhs-trust/walsall-reduces-paperwork-by-80-per-cent/5065918.article#.UsDhb2RdVPw Link to reduced paperwork if you'd like to read it

Yes I agree with you that it shouldn't be done by nurses. The receptionist usually takes details anyway so surely it won't be that hard to subsequently raise an invoice?

It would not only raise money but save money by deterring all the NHS tourists.

Absolutely right in principle. None of us would expect to travel abroad and receive treatment free of charge, without having to contribute anything or pay for insurance, and it makes no sense that the UK is different. The NHS is in crisis already. I agree though that the logistics need to be thought through and this should not be an additional burden on nurses and doctors who need to be able to focus on medical treatment not paperwork

I'm an expat and needed some very minor health care when I was in the UK visiting. I tried to pay but the fact is that, although they checked and yes I should pay, there is no facility for it. It wasn't worth the time and energy so I received treatment for free.

In other countries people have insurance or co-pays or whatever so there is a way of paying. It would involve such a change in method in the UK that in most cases it isn't worth it.

How long does it take a nurse to change a lightbulb? Ten minutes to change it, 15 to document the bloody thing

I'll correct you there OP.
A nurse is not allowed to change a lightbulb. We have to raise a maintenance request electronically first, log the job number and wait for a fully qualified electrician to change it

Would be a hell of a lot quicker to change it ourselves wouldn't it? Save the complaints from patients/visitors and the dreaded inspectors.....

Luckily I've never had that problem!

So if someone is really ill and has no insurance, we will leave them to die? No, I don't agree with this at all.

they could do it at reception.
like at private hospitals/gp's.
swipe the card when you arrive and get the itemised bill when treatment is finished.

Surely the UK could adapt a financial system model from another country that allows the ward administrator to instigate the relevant process for Invoicing? All hospitals have accounts departments so medical staff would only need to sign off chargeable treatment and the rest would be down to accounts.

It would be easier if visitors were required to have insurance upon arrival to this country, as we would be required to when travelling, then all costs could be organised between hospital and insurance company.

My father had a heart attack in Florida 2002. A week in hospital over there and the bill came to around $17k. That's one person's medical treatment. The NHS isn't designed or financed to support the medical needs of the world and it shouldn't be either.

It's all hot air anyway. They've already said no one in need will be turned away so people will just have their sob stories ready. unlike if we get taken ill abroad and have to prove we can pay before we get any treatment.

greenie

It states

No one will be turned away from an A&E department in an emergency, but there will be a bill to pay afterwards for patients from overseas

How does this work with the european health card thingy then?

Baubles - I once required the nhs as an expat. My open purse was laughed at and the mn collective sneered at me for being "anti-NHS". :(