Hamas and Israel on the brink of war

[AnyaKnowIt]

news.sky.com/story/1011426/gaza-hamas-jaabari-killed-in-israeli-attacks

10 People dead after Israeli air strikes

[littleducks]

I think tiggersreturn post proves the 'history is written by the winners' pont

[OhBuggerandArse]

There are children dying and in pain tonight; the hospitals are desperately in need of supplies. Please make a donation if you can.

www.islamic-relief.org.uk/Gaza_appeal.aspx

[difficultpickle]

Donated. Thanks for the link.

[bobthebuddha]

littleducks, if you think either side in this are 'winners' you're not someone who has to live with the day-to-day reality. There are no winners.

[donnie]

oh dear Tigger you are having trouble with a few basic facts aren't you - the 'Arabs fleeing their homes at the start of the war' - did the Irgun massacre of Deir Yassin just not happen then? and what about the Irgun bombings of hotels and other places - including the King David Hotel - did these just not happen either?

Your justification for the 'settlements' -your word, definitely not mine - seems to be that is says something in the Bible so it must be true. If , as you say, Israel believes that Palestinian land ' is their biblically and historically' then you have just proved my earlier point that there is fundamental racism entrenched in their land policy.

Let us not call them 'settlements' because that conceals the truth that they are stolen from other families. Stolen by radicals who believe - and are encouraged by the Israeli govt to believe - that they have a right by virtue of their birth and nationality to take the land from others. Netanyahu described it to Hillary Clinton as 'natural expansion'.

Anyway we have been here before, many times.

[squoosh]

Bad, bad PR day for Israel.

If Israel proceeds with a ground invasion we can only hope that international opinion turns fully against them.

[JakeBullet]

The IsraelI land is a biblical thing, only difference now is that the Israelis are no longer an oppressed people, they are now the oppressors.

[JakeBullet]

And another shout for Islamic Relief as linked below. I made a donation last night.

[littleducks]

True bob, I didn't mean either side had a moral or physical victory just that it was a very onesided view

[RooneyMara]

It's all well over my head as I'm crap at understanding politics OR history.

But surely no one here is wrong or right, they're both unhappy, neither really wants to be fighting, and they need to, well, compromise a bit?

When I look at pictures of little kids on TV holding home made wooden guns, and talk to the mum at school who grew up in Palestine and cannot allow her child to play with toy weapons, it just looks like an intractable, cyclical situation where kids grow up having only ever known hostility and having an enemy to blame.

I wish we could talk some sense into these people.

[tiggersreturn]

Donnie you always misread posts to make your points. Go back and you'll find a reference to conquering.

Are you offering the parts of Hebron back to the Jews who were murdered there in 1929? I don't think so. You have no solutions just accusations.

[ScorpionQueen]

Someone I know on FB keeps posting pictures of dead children. I am sitting here crying and feeling so helpless. I'm too bloody overdrawn to even donate to the Islamic Relief fund. It is all just so awful. I'm such a coward I've had to unsubscribe from their feed as I can't bear to look at the images. Then I feel bad because I only have to look at them, they aren't my children, family, friends. These are real people. Children. I don't care who started it but it needs to stop.
:(

[katkouta]

Not going to get into an arguement about the situation, we'd be here forever!

Just want to advise people not to trust ANY article regarding this situation written by the BBC. They are utterly disgusting with their biased reports.

[donnie]

katkouta - as a matter of interest which news sources do you recommend as accurate and unbiased?

[splashymcsplash]

I agree, the BBC is incredibly biased. There are many well documented instances of them refusing to report on atrocities committed by Palestinians against Israeli civilians including women and children.

No wonder there is so much anti-Israel sentiment in the UK when reporting is so one sided.

I wonder how many people who are so quick to condemn Israel know that Hamas broke the ceasefire and has been doing so for many months.

[FoxSake]

donnie I like Alex thomson for channel 4 news, his twitter feed is excellent.

Splashy why did Israel continue to blockade Gaza, preventing medical care and electricity to the people of Gaza even during the ceasefire? A genuine question. I do not support Hamas or Israel but I do believe that when you opress a people the way the Israelis opress the people of Palestine you will always breed militant groups. Israel has an agenda, they are inciting war by murdering innocent women and children.

[splashymcsplash]

Foxsake because the blockade was in place to prevent missiles and other weapons which would be used on Israel from entering the country. Unfortunately there are numerous smuggling tunnels, so Israel's blockade was not very effective anyway. Just look at the numberof missiles which have been sent into Israel.

[FoxSake]

Really ? Just weapons.

"According to the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs at various times, Israel has blocked goods including wheelchairs, dry food items, and crayons, Stationery, soccer balls, and musical instruments.International aid group Mercy Corps said it was blocked from sending 90 tons of macaroni and other foodstuffs. After international pressure, Israeli authorities said that they were giving the shipment a green light. Israel was also reported to have prevented aid groups from sending in other items, such as paper, crayons,[citation needed] tomato paste and lentils." The UN have found the blockade to me unlawful from a humanitarian point of view and yet Israel refused to end it.

Israel also forces Palestinians to carry ID cards, sounds all to familiar to me. Because of the blockades families are forced to use Gas bottles for cooking, bought on the black market, there are horrendous injuries weekly to women and children from these cannisters exploding, the victims are then prevented from travelling to specialist burns units because of the blockades, MSF who remain impartial have documented this well.

[Elfontheshelfiswatchingyou]

I thought everyone knew that the blockade prevented medicine, food, vital supplies and even children's toys getting through. Reminds me of the ghettos in WW2.
:(

[splashymcsplash]

Foxsake what is the source you are quoting?

I think there is an awful lot of misinformation out there.

Humanitarian supplies are allowed in, butvia the correct routes. For political reasons, many organisations have not wished to follow these routes.

I'm going to hide this thread now. elf As someone who has family members who survived the ghettos and worse I find your comment rather disturbing.

[Elfontheshelfiswatchingyou]

I find the whole thing very disturbing. I'm sorry if you are offended, but sadly circumstances are not that dissimilar.

[FoxSake]

The circumstances are not disimilar at all, hide away if turning away makes you feel better, Israel are committing serious war crimes similar to that commited during ww2. The similarities are all there. If you google the UN gaza blockade or any non biased aid organisation MSF, Red Cross UNICEF they all talk about the Israelis Blockade being unlawful with the worst effected being women and children.

There are women and children trapped in a densely populated area with no shelter, no where to hide, no escape with sophisticated military raining bombs on their homes. Small babies are heaving their legs blown off being killed and being left orphans. This is not there war. Even during ww2small children were allowed to be evacuated to safe places, not in Gaza.

The genocide of a people, shame on you Israel and your supporters.

[FoxSake]

repercussions of the gaza embargo by MSF

[AnyaKnowIt]

No ceasefire has been agreed there were rumours it would be starting at 10pm UK time

[tiggersreturn]

No a ceasefire has been agreed www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20436699 it's just that 20 rockets have been sent from Gaza to Israel (unclear if Hamas or some other rocket sending party) since then