Bill Wyman and John Peel too :(

[bkgirl]

Look at these
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1266664/Mandy-Smith-I-DID-sleep-Bill-Wyman-I-14--man-life-God.html

m.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/1999/jan/23/weekend.julieburchill?cat=lifeandstyle&type=article

Why did the cops not take action after these stories? So confused!!!

I just think its weird that the john peel stuff is in the papers now, when he was very candid in his autobiography which was published just after his death, and was completed by his wife. Its all in there, but nobody was bothered at the time it was published it seems. That's what I mean by saying we seem to be getting into the realms of a witch hunt, I think the jimmy Saville revelations have opened the floodgates and now the papers are just going to town with similar stories.

But there its a difference between someone who is young - and immature - themselves being careless or indifferent to a young woman's age, and a sexual predator who keeps the age of his victims constant no matter how old he gets himself.

John peel went on to a long lasting marriage and children of his own, and I would hope he had some second thoughts about his previous behaviour when his own daughter entered teenage.

I remember Bill Wyman/Mandy Smith was a huge deal at the time - it certainly wasn't 'swept under the carpet' and I think he was quite openly criticised as well as her mother for allowing it to happen. And of course they denied doing anything till she was 16.

John Peel, I don't know what to think, certainly the woman interviewed in the DM was very much a willing particpant, and she didn't tell him how old she was. But then I was a huge fan of JP, so perhaps I'm vewing this in a more sympathetic light?

Neither however are the same as JS groping young girls in their hospital beds imo.

I am confused about how I feel about this, my dp says he told me years ago that John Peel had been married to a 15 year old and I brushed it aside. Now that I am a mother of a daughter I feel differently and repulsed by John Peel's past, he was a lot older than these young girls.

I don't necesarily see the issue as about comparing everything with what Jimmy Savile did.

If JP had sex with underage girls then that should be acknowledged - and be up for discussion in the context of what's tolerated in the present day.

Children were blamed then for being consensual but today attitudes are changing. Children are not consensual - and not responsible. The adult is.

I would have got married at 15 if someone I liked that much had asked me.

Being sexually abused by someone you don't fancy, don't like and who doesn't give a shit about you, is a bit different.

I think he was in his early 20s? I don't know. I haven't read all the stuff about it.

Severed - I know, but hopefully an adult would responsibly hold back and wait until you were old enough.

Yes, it's not the same as being sexually abused.

I do know what you mean though.

Then there is intent, and thoughtfulness/lack of, and being immature, and all these things...I did stupid things when I was young, but I grew up.

I never intended any harm to people. Some folk really intend harm, or don't care how much harm they cause.

Peel's first wife was 15 when he married her

He married a fifteen year old when he was in America I think - jp I mean. The article I read said She lied about her age and her parents backed her up in the lie cos they wanted her to marry an English man!

The article says this -

"While in Dallas, in 1965, he married his first wife, Shirley Anne Milburn, then aged 15, in what Peel later described as a "mutual defence pact". The marriage was never happy and although she accompanied Peel back to Britain in 1967, they were soon separated. The divorce became final in 1973. Shirley Anne Milburn later took her own life"

I'm talking about a different article than that. It was out at the weekend I think. Think it was daily mail to be honest but I didn't want to admit to reading the mail if I'm honest!

Elvis?.... Wasn't Priscilla just 14 or 15 when they first got together?

Jerry Lee Lewis... There are loads going back.

Yeah Priscilla was fourteen when she met Elvis. Jerry lee lewis married a thirteen year old cousin.

Consent and children comes up on these threads a lot. I looked it up:

If you have sex with someone aged 13-15 who is willing to have sex with you, then you are guilty of unlawful sex with a minor, but not rape. So the consent is taken into account and makes a big difference to what you are charged with and the sentence you get.

If you have sex with a child under 13 then, consent or not, you are charged with a specific offence of unlawful sex with a child under 13 and in very deep trouble. The fact the child was willing might be some mitigation (assuming anyone believes it) but you're up shit creek and the sentence will be very long anyway.

I think the courts start with an assumption that the younger the child, the less likely it is that consent (as any sane adult would understand it) could possibly be present.

We do not have any offence of statutory rape in the UK.

Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated. Statutory rape - is that an American law then?

'I bet there have been various boy bands throughout the years who have slept with their underage fans.' This. I remember reading (I think) an interview with the manager of Take That when they were in the first few years of their fame (must have been the Sunday Times magazine?? Again, not sure). He said his job during concerts was to stay out front, pick out some pretty girls and take them backstage for the band to have sex with. Now I'm sure he wasn't targetting minors, but there have to have been underage girls who looked older who ended up getting selected, given how many teenagers were at those concerts.

The 15 year old issue is complicated isn't it? There are 15 year olds who could consent and be fine long term and others who might think they are consenting, think they are in love etc. but who are vulnerable and have actually been coerced and long term will find that scenario very damaging (thinking of the recent case of Megan Stammers and her teacher here)

In 1962 my mum started to go out with my Dad. He was 20, she was 15 and training as a nurse. They married on her 16th birthday.

I'm not trying o excuse John peel, as I don't know much about him, however 15 year olds in the 60s were working and people did marry earlier than now a days.

Quick - Good point - my best friend's mum and dad are the same in that respect. Married as soon as she was 16, and they've been married donkey's years now, think about forty years actually.

Slightly changing subject, but if you scroll to bottom of the Mail article about JS there is another about child brides. An 8 year old marrying a 50 yr old and so on. This has shocked me too- I know there are cultural elements here too, but I can't understand how anyone could do this to a child. I just feel sick and very down about the kind of world we live in.

Statutory rape is American terminology, yes.

On a thread ages ago, a link to international consentual sex ages was put up. I have no idea why anyone is having sex in the Vatican city anyway, let alone a 12 yo if I remember properly. I think Spain is 13yo.

I wonder if Elvis and JLL lived in states where the legal age was younger than UK.

If memory serves, Elvis and Priscilla had a very long courtship so am not sure it was ever suggested that he had sex with her when she was underage. They did meet when she was fourteen though. Think they met in Germany when he was in the army. They didn't get married till a good few years later.

JLL - that was definitely in America. They made a flim about his marriage to his cousin starring Dennis Quaid and Wynona Ryder.