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Original poster

SAHM's rubbished again

27 replies

milward · 22/10/2005 15:15

Just read the Janice Turner article in todays Times!! "Six month paternity? Give me a break" What aload of cobblers on the sahm.

The bit that goes on about how a career woman will have "squandered her education, talent drained" by staying at home to look after her kids!!!! COMPLETE RUBBISH -

This annoys me so much that sahm are thought to just need no education - in fact the article states this when Turner goes on about womens education. She writes that if women are educated to key professions that they must be kept there & that women doctors give 15 yrs less service than their male counterparts. So what do you mean here then ???? all educated mums to to not use their intelligence bringing up their kids?? to be kept tied to their jobs out of the home???

I'm a sahm that has a good education & left a career to look after my kids. I grasped the opportunity to be with my children. To me the most important job in the world & by the sounds of it the least valued.

OP posts:
DissLocated · 22/10/2005 15:23

Can't do right for doing wrong can we? Seems to me that mothers are being criticised in the media at the moment whether they work or stay at home.

CarrieG · 22/10/2005 16:07

Yeah but - whilst the article's clearly designed to be provocative, she does say:

'Two short career breaks, with neither partner losing touch or needing retraining, makes better economic sense than one long one.'

which makes perfect sense to me - I was more than ready to go back to work after 6 months ML, but I'd've loved it if dh could then have had some time as a SAHD...as would he. Even without pay, it might've been feasible for us to do without his salary for a few months - I earn more, & there was no way we would have got by if I'd taken any longer. Depends on individual circumstances, really.

I think Turner's point is more that we readily accept that women will take extended career breaks for parenting, whereas it's not seen as socially acceptable for blokes to do the same...& I agree with her that it's a deplorable & old-fashioned double standard.

I'm reading her comments on women 'wasting' education & training more as her taking on the persona of sexist gits like the Neil French she mentions, rather than her own opinions. Isn't she just advocating a level playing field where a man should be able to take a career break to be a SAHD if that's what works, rather than it necessarily being his partner who automatically takes on the 'at home' role?

logic · 22/10/2005 16:26

In what way are we squandering our education by passing our intelligent conversation, knowledge and academic expectation onto our children? What a bizarre thing to say!

Sounds chip on the shoulder to me. Sounds to me like the comments of someone who either has no kids and therefore no idea or has realised that they cannot bear to be at home with the children because it's actually hard work and is trying to justify it. Sad.

monkeytrousers · 22/10/2005 17:10

Does this woman have any kids of her own or is she just another career woman in a sad state of denial and projected self loathing?

ladymuck · 22/10/2005 18:33

Just read the article. Have to say that it didn't come across at particularly anti-SAHM. (And she does point out that intelligent women will want to strive for excellence in their parenting which almost inevitably means that they will want to be SAHM) The point seemed to be that we have a long way to go before we get to a state where it is equally accepted that both parents will need, and use, family-friendly initiatives.

For once I thought that it wasn't a bad article.

hoxtonchick · 22/10/2005 18:36

she's a mumsnetter MT . and prolific, she's got an article in the guardian today too. will read the times one now.

monkeytrousers · 22/10/2005 19:33

I haven't read the article sorry. But doesn't all this equality talk actually lie uneasliy with the pro-breastfeeding stuff coming out of the dept of health? Where is the gender equality debate on this?

ladymuck · 22/10/2005 19:41

SOrry MT - don't quite get your point? DO you mean that the DoH should be saying something differnt? Or Janice Turner?

bottersnike · 22/10/2005 19:49

I think she was also trying ( albeit provocatively )to make the point that if only the mum has the leave available to stay at home with children, then she has less opportunity to feel like she can go back to work, and any enthusiasm she once had for her career is lost unnecessarily.

moondog · 22/10/2005 19:53

Gosh honestly milward,do you really care what some journalist thinks.....?
It never occurs to me to have to justify my work/home arrangements to anyone,it really doesn't.

Wasn't it Alistair Campbell that said 'news' is created by journalists for journalists??

hunkerpumpkin · 22/10/2005 19:54

He would though, MD, wouldn't he?!

moondog · 22/10/2005 19:55

It's true though isn't it?

When I hear or read that

'There was outrage today at X's assertion that....'

I think

'No there bloody well wasn't.'

Nastylocketstheevil · 22/10/2005 19:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

hunkerpumpkin · 22/10/2005 20:00

MD, oh, yes, it's true. Agree totally about the "there was outrage..." and I love "the public are calling for..." - er, I'm not, nobody I know is - bloody weirdy press!

moondog · 22/10/2005 20:05

Quite hm.

Hang on let me think of more

'There is growing pressure on...'

'Increasing public concern...'

'...reacted with fury..'

'...increased sense of uncertainty'

It's all utter bollocks.

buffytheharpsichordcarrier · 22/10/2005 20:08

lol, yes I always snort at that kind of nonsense too.
there remains a question mark today over...

where? I can't see one. Oh I see you just DREW a big question mark did you. On your monitor. you sad journo.

moondog · 22/10/2005 20:09

psml buffy!!

moondog · 22/10/2005 20:11

Most people (myself included) have nothing more pressing to worry about than where the car keys are or if they have a clean pair of knickers for tomorrow.

puff · 22/10/2005 20:15

Yes, the newspapers may be in a frenzy about a dead parrot.

I am not.

Marina · 22/10/2005 20:21

Hoxtonchick
But she's gone upmarket in location lately do you not think?

magicfarawaytree · 22/10/2005 21:18

obviously if only the thick, couldnt careless mums stayed at home there would be less juveniles? I hope that being a half decent sahm I might be able to eduate my children to ignore such igonorant remarks, and to become upstanding members of the community.

edam · 22/10/2005 21:29

Ladymuck, when you say 'intelligent women will want to strive for excellence in their parenting which almost inevitably means that they will want to be SAHM', is that your opinion or are you quoting JT?

The idea of striving for excellence in parenting sounds hilarious to me (have I been missing out on some big industry awards do where they give out gongs for mother of the year?).

Just remembered didn't sweep the floor after ds's tea, must go and do it before someone discovers I'm a less-than excellent parent...

hoxtonchick · 22/10/2005 21:35

marina

ladymuck · 22/10/2005 21:38

I was broadly paraphrasing JT -

"But fast-forward ten years to when today?s twentysomething women put babies at the top of their to-do lists. These high-achievers will want to perform motherhood to the same standard that characterised their careers. Which means ? they?ve read the endless guilt-making reports ? a mother raising a baby herself. Time to broker a part-time deal. And employers are more willing than ever to agree. "

The "striving for excellence" must have been for me, but I didn't have the paper in front of me at the time. Just wanted to say that I hadn't read the article as a slur on SAHMs. Probably because we're one of the households where Dh did manage to go part-time after the birth of ds1 (New Zealand boss who was very pro-family).

Original poster
milward · 22/10/2005 21:41

mdog - I do care when it is made to sound like educated women should be out doing jobs that aren't raising their kids & impling that non-educated women should stay & bring up their children at home. Her arguement really doesn't make sense as where should one place those women who work as childcarers as their paid profession!

I also annoys me on another level - I respect the ways parents look after their kids. Some decide to be a sahm or sahd whilst others go out to work. Some don't have a choice & have to go out to work for the money and/or other work related reasons.

The paternity leave slant was wrecked by the rubbishing of sahms who are educated. Can't believe the author wants to go back to the times when it wasn't thought worth educating girls??

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