Japan Planning Thread 3

[Takoneko]

Hi!

This is a new Japan Planning Thread for when our last one is full.

Feel free to ask any questions here related to travel in Japan, regardless of budget or style of trip.

We’re now past the halfway point on this trip. We’ve been having the most amazing time. We’re currently in Matsuyama in Ehime prefecture, having spent the last week trundling around Shikoku by train. That was a bit of a last minute change. We’d originally planned to hire a car here, but the train just worked out so much cheaper that we decided to pivot and change a couple of our hotel bookings last second to do a railway route. We probably could have seen more by car, but the trains have been very low stress and pleasant. It’s finally starting to feel a bit Autumnal. Still warm in the daytime but it’s light jacket weather in the morning and evening finally.

@Pusspot When do you fly out? Your trip must be getting close now.

@Takoneko Glad it’s going so well. I’m envious of your Shikoku stay - it was on my list, but we decided to spend more time in Kyushu. Next time! Good to hear that the trains there are a decent alternative to driving.

I was going to ask for a weather update today - we’re going on Monday evening and I’m having a packing wobble. We’re finishing our trip in Kanazawa, and it’ll be late November by then.

We have day trips planned to Nagano and Kurobe Gorge, which sound like very chilly places. I think that our day in Nikko next week will also be much colder than Tokyo.

@Pusspot We’re obviously fairly far south, but it’s been really warm ever since we arrived. Yesterday I noticed a difference and put on a lightweight jacket for the first time since we got here. It still got up to about 22 degrees here today but it was sometimes hitting 30 degrees just a few days ago with the influence of typhoons. It was a bit chilly first thing in the morning today and I’ll probably put on my jacket again when we head back out for dinner in an hour or so but I was out in a lightweight dress and elbow length sleeves without a jacket for most of the day.

For a Brit it still feels very late summer/early autumn and it’s looking likely to stay that way for the next few weeks.

I’d expect it to be a bit chillier further north or at altitude, but make sure you also have things you can wear if it’s still in the 20s down in Kyushu.

@Takoneko Thank you - much appreciated feedback. I will pack an extra couple of lighter weight things. Getting excited now for our trip!

Hello, looking for ideas of something to do on Sunday from Tokyo, possibly a day trip, is everywhere going to be more crowded?

The popular day trip spots are invariably more crowded at weekends. Ultimately you have to do some things on weekends though.

Kawagoe is nice.

I also love Kamakura. The Enoden line is a sardine can but outside of that there’s enough places that the tourists spread themselves out into that it didn’t feel uncomfortably crowded to us, even at the weekend.

Nikko looks lovely, but I haven’t personally been yet.

Yokohama is an interesting place to visit (it's just south of Tokyo). Starting from tomorrow there is a regional food festival called the National Furusato Fair at the Red Brick Warehouse.

https://www.furusatofair.com/

That’s a good shout. We also enjoyed Yokohama. There was an Oktoberfest there when we were there (in September 😂).

@Pusspot Tokyo is warm, I was out at 10pm in a t-shirt tonight.

@Fuckingfuckssake Yokohama is nice to look out at open water and get a water taxi back to the station but Enoshima has my heart out of the two.

One more night in Tokyo has anyone got any suggestions for Halloween please?

I’m going to Magome to walk some of the Nakasendo trail for a few days. Anyone got any suggestions? It’s 22 degrees and dry but the middle day is heavy rain so that’s a whole load of contingency to carry on my back.

@Takoneko there is a Christmas tree in my hotel 😆

@Fuckingfuckssake we went to Kamakura and Enoshima on a Sunday last year. It was really busy, but there were lots of Japanese day trippers as well as foreign tourists. We’re going to Nikko on Thursday for our Tokyo day trip this time.
@Japan3 thank you! I am tweaking my packing this weekend (again!)

Kamakura will be busy but is definitely worth it.

Enoshima is fun. I’d recommend getting the train to Ofuna on the Tokaido line and catching the Shonan Monorail (it’s a hanging monorail!) train down to Enoshima.

Enoshima and Kamakura are close so you could do both in a day. They are connected by the Enoden line. Enoden trains are smaller than regular trains and they can get packed on weekends.

Yokohama will feel a lot less packed with tourists and is definitely worth a visit. Yokohama Station area is good for shopping. Minato Mirai, Sakuragicho, Kannai and Ishikawacho have more interesting things to see.

Yokohama also has the most unusual Starbucks I’ve been to. It’s a listed former quarantine building right on the beach. https://maps.app.goo.gl/DUVJDWarXrJEseJF9?g_st=ic
It’s quite a long way from the center of the city but might be worth a visit. There’s other stuff to do in the area as well.

I really want to go to Japan next year and have been looking at inside Japan Hidden Japan itinerary. It is eye waveringly expensive though and they say if they organise a self guided tour it will be even more expensive. Why, I don't know.

We aren't that keen on Tokyo or Hiroshima. I want to avoid lots of crowds and all the obvious places. Much more interested in the shrines, traditional homes and ceremonies, shinto sites, samurai castles etc. I just don't even know where to start if we try to do it ourselves.

Has anyone followed a similar itinerary or been with Inside Japan? Looking at May or October I think.

Hi

Once you start it’s actually not too hard to organise yourselves. Look at https://www.japan-guide.com/ which has some useful itineraries and information and AI is also your friend, If you tell it what you’re interested in it will give you some thoughts. We’ve been twice, once in October when we followed the golden route/ Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto, Nara, Hiroshima and again in summer when we went to Hakone, Kamakura, Ishigaki, Kanazawa, Takayama and Gifu. We loved the Japanese alps, they were much quieter than the cities. We also wanted to do part of the Nakasendo trail but had to cancel for various reasons. I used sky scanner to look for flights then booked direct and booking.com largely to find hotels but some I booked directly. Happy planning and ask questions here: everyone is super helpful!

ETA I haven’t been but Nara looks stunning g for shrines and temples, and you can also do temple stays in various places if this interests you. We stayed in a few ryokans as well. Kanazawa is great for samurai stuff and the castles are lovely. We especially liked Himeji but haven’t made it to Matsumoto which is supposed to be stunning.

@Hummingbirdz Those itineraries are always very expensive compared to arranging it yourself. It’s so much easier than you might expect. You can always use one of their itineraries as a starting point for where you might like to go.

For Shinto sites, I think it’s pretty much impossible for anything to top Ise Grand shrine. For Buddhist temples, I think that Todaiji in Nara would be my top one.

You can travel between Ise, Nara, Kyoto, Osaka and Nagoya with a kintetsu rail pass. We used a 5 day one earlier this month and it was very straightforward and affordable. It’s a really good part of the country for the sorts of things you seem to be interested in. We visited Gifu city and Inuyama castle from Nagoya and really liked them both.

"...have been looking at inside Japan Hidden Japan itinerary"

OK, so I just had a look at that specific itinerary.

Wow! Now that is expensive. Twelve nights for £4,975 not including flights.

I had a bit of time to kill while waiting for Strictly so I tried to do a breakdown of the tour booking it independently. Assuming travelling next June.

Day 1

Arrive at Osaka airport private car transfer to Kyoto - £140 so £70 per person for two.
Stay overnight at the Royal Park Hotel Kyoto Sanjo - (£100 for a double room including breakfast) so £50 each
Evening meal at restaurant – could be anything but let’s say £50 per person

Day 2

Half day tour of Kyoto using public transport - £200 per group, minimum of four people on Inside Japan tours so let’s say £50 per person.
Tea ceremony with a trainee geisha in Gion - £25 per person
Stay overnight at the Royal Park Hotel Kyoto Sanjo - (£100 for a double room including breakfast) so £50 each

Day 3

Travel to Mount Koya by private coach and guided tour of various sites including Okunoin cemetery - £65 per person.
Stay overnight at a Buddhist temple lodging half board in Koyasan. It isn’t clear exactly which one it is, but they are typically £240 per night half board so £120 per person.

Day 4

Travel by coach to Wakayama and then by ferry to Tokushima on Shikoku. You could take the train or bus to Wakayama but a taxi might cost anything up to £120 so £60 per person. The ferry is about £12 per person.
Visit the Awa Odori Kaikan Museum and see a demonstration - £9
Stay overnight at the Hotel Sunroute Tokushima – (£110 for a double room including breakfast) so £55 each

Day 5

Visit Awa Jurobe Yashiki puppet theatre - £5
Travel to Takamatsu by private coach – about £50 by train (or £60 for the faster train)
Visit the Ritsurin Garden
Stay overnight at the JR Clement Hotel (£90 for a double room including breakfast) so £45 each

Day 6

Day trip to Naoshima Island visiting museums and art galleries – High speed ferry £15 return per person. Entry tickets £20, lunch £20. Full day tour £80
Stay overnight at the JR Clement Hotel (£90 for a double room including breakfast) so £45 each

Day 7

Travel to Kotohira by train - £10 on fast train
Visit Kinryo Sake Museum – free entry
Visit the Konpirasan shrine complex – free entry
Stay overnight at the Konpira Onsen Toramaru Ryokan. I can’t find a price for this but similar ryokans in the area seem to be £160 for a double room half board so £80 each

Day 8

Day trip on private coach to Iya Valley, boat ride, cross the Kazurabashi bridge and visit a Samurai residence - £100 per person
Stay overnight at the Konpira Onsen Toramaru Ryokan again

Day 9

Travel to Matsuyama by train - £35
Visit Matsuyama Castle - £3
Stay overnight at the Candeo Hotels Matsuyama Okaido (£120 for a double room including breakfast) so £60 each

Day 10

Travel to Hiroshima by ferry - £16
Guided tour of the city - £90
Stay overnight at the Hotel Intergate Hiroshima (£110 for a double room including breakfast) so £55 each

Day 11

Day trip to Miyajima Island - £22 return on the river cruise from the Peace Park or £6 return on the train and ferry. Full day tour £80.
Stay overnight at the Hotel Intergate Hiroshima (£110 for a double room including breakfast) so £55 each

Day 12

Travel to Joge partly on Shinkansen - £30 return
Guided tour £40
Evening meal – could be anything but let’s say £50
Stay overnight at the Royal Park Hotel Kyoto Sanjo - (£100 for a double room including breakfast) so £50 each

Day 13

Private car transfer to Osaka - £140 so £70 per person for two.

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I’ve included prices for tour guides where you might not actually want a guide yourself if you were arranging this yourself, but that is something that is included in the services provided.

The above comes to £1,832.

There will be some extra things like local bus fares within a city or if you choose to take a taxi from the station to the hotel etc. But that is quite a big difference from the £4,975 that they are quoting.

Part of the difference is their profit margin, but also part of the difference is that they will have somebody all along the way helping you to book into the hotel, get to the station or the pickup point for the tour, arrange for your luggage to be sent on ahead if appropriate etc.

At the end of the day, if you want that sort of hand holding while you’re in Japan then it is going to come at an expense.

But, if you’re happy booking hotels yourself and working out how to get from a hotel to a train station then you will save an awful lot of money and you will have a trip that is exactly what you want – not one that is set down by the tour company.

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"I just don't even know where to start if we try to do it ourselves."

Several posters have recommended a website called japan-guide dot com

This is a very useful resource to have a look at including with coming up with itineraries and giving you the most popular shrines and castles to visit etc.

Also have a look at the detailed guides given by the tour operators like Inside Japan and see which bits look interesting to you.

That's how I priced their Hidden Japan itinerary - I looked at the specific things included on their tour and the specific hotels they mentioned and a quick internet search was able to bring up the prices for these things if I wanted to book them myself.

Thanks that's really helpful. Some meals are included but not all that many. Also a night in a hotel. However it is a huge mark up.

Meals here aren’t expensive. I’ve had some absolutely amazing meals for less than £20 per person. We went to a place selling the local speciality “bone-in chicken” in Takamatsu and had the best chicken of my life. We each had an alcoholic drink and ordered chicken and a rice dish each. With the otoshi charge (a bit like a cover charge for which you get a small compulsory dish) the bill was under £30 for two people. I suspect that @Another2Cats post has actually been quite generous to the company in terms of their mark up. £50 per head would be a pretty luxe meal.

Looking at the itinerary if we do it ourselves it looks quite daunting. It's just whether it's worth the lack of stress to book a tour.

@Hummingbirdz I suppose it depends on whether you think an extra £6-7k or so is a price you’re willing to pay for that for two people.

Once you’re here it all feels a lot less daunting. The trains etc are easy to navigate and getting from one place to the next really isn’t hard, even in the less touristed places. In fact, I’d say places get more tourist-friendly the further you get from the big cities.

I’ve never done the guided tour thing, so don’t have experience of what that’s like, but I don’t find travelling around Japan particularly difficult. We’ve spent the last week or so trundling around Shikoku by train and it was all very straightforward.

The JNTO offer free travel consultations at Japan House in Kensington if you’re anywhere near there. They aren’t a travel agent, so don’t book things for you but can offer advice about routes and itineraries.

@Hummingbirdz I second the view that you can do it yourself fairly easily, and save a lot of money as well that you can spend on the trip (ryokans nicer hotels etc). Google maps is really useful especially for platforms and exits.

I agree with you, that particular itinerary does look very daunting – it includes an awful lot of travel, you’re staying at a different hotel almost every night.

It certainly can be very daunting to arrange your own itinerary if you’ve never done anything like this before, but it is certainly very doable.

A good way to start is to have a look at some suggested itineraries. Other people have mentioned the japan-guide website.

Here is an itinerary from them that covers a similar route. Rather than moving to a different hotel almost every day, it involves staying in each place for a longer period so that you can spend more time viewing places rather than just travelling from one hotel to the next.

https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2402_10.html

A brief summary of it is

Day 1
Transfer from Osaka airport to Kyoto

Day 2 – 4
Spend three full days in Kyoto

Day 5
Travel to Uji to visit the Byodoin Temple and then continue on to Nara
Stay overnight in Nara

Day 6
Nara visiting temples etc

Day 7
Travel to Mount Koya and stay at Buddhist temple lodging half board in Koyasan (like the Inside Japan tour)

Day 8
Explore area more in the morning and then travel to Osaka in the afternoon.

Day 9 – 11
Three days based in Osaka and day trips to nearby attractions such as Himeji Castle and the city of Kobe

Day 12
Return to airport

There are also lots of suggested itineraries for what to do in different cities and day trips. For example, here is a suggested itinerary for a day in Osaka:

https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4028_osaka_history.html

From here you can decide if there are other places that you want to visit. Perhaps you want to spend some time elsewhere so perhaps reduce the time you spend in Kyoto or Osaka by a day (or add some extra time to your holiday – this is 11 nights).

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Once you’ve got your itinerary sorted out then look at booking your hotels. Booking dot com and other websites are great resources for this. That’s where I got the prices from for the hotels that Inside Japan use.

You get to choose which hotels you want to stay at and what sort of price point you prefer.

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"I want to avoid lots of crowds and all the obvious places. "

Here's some suggestions for that in Kyoto
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@Hummingbirdz I agree with @Takonekoand @Another2Cats It’s quite easy to book your own itinerary, and you will save a fortune. I think using a tour company itinerary is a good way to get ideas, then tweak it to suit your own tastes.

I can understand why you’re not keen on Tokyo, but Hiroshima is a wonderful city. We only stayed two nights, but would happily have stayed longer. The train station is much easier to navigate than Tokyo, and the vibe felt more relaxed and friendly. It’s a good location to get to other places for day trips along the coastline, especially if you buy a regional rail pass.

@Hummingbirdz I am in Chūbu atm would recommend if you like hiking. Very peaceful. The first time I visited Japan I had a mix of booking own hotels and transport and going on day tours. The people on this thread were enormously helpful. Travelling around is the easiest part. Tours are still helpful if you want to hear about a thing/area but you will be on a bus/walking with a group of tourists.

@Hummingbirdz also it’s nice to start the day according to your own body clock rather than hang around/ rush to meet the tour itinerary. What if you love an area and want to spend an extra night there. You can store luggage at train stations and transport it onwards very easily.