Veterinary?

[MrPickles73]

DD is year 12 doing A levels chemistry, biology and RE. GCSEs she got all 8s and 9s except a 7 in biology.
She was thinking of studying law at uni but someone has put her off saying it's all AI now and no entry level jobs.
I don't think she's cut out for medicine / dentistry.
But she does love animals and is good at handling and looking after them. She's had a horse for 4 years and has done some lambing a couple of years back. So I am thinking it's worth to think about vet school.
She's moved to a different school for A levels do it's been a lot of changing starting to settle in. I'd say she's currently getting Bs in her assessments for chem and bio.
Is she on a good path for vet school? I was thinking to get some work experience asap and see how she gets on.
She has 1 hour per week chemistry tutoring to make sure she's on top of that and I'm wondering about getting a biology tutor too.

Any tips / ideas?

I wonder whether this would be of interest to her, OP.

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/studywithus/ugstudy/courses/UG/Pharmaceutical-Sciences-BSc-Hons.html

Realistically she will need AAA, and definitley work experience. She’ll need to really WANT to do it too.

Yes I came on to say exactly this. AAA as a minimum I think and many unis ask for an Astar. And yes it is a tough gig so you need to want to do it and nothing else.

I think A from a 7 in biology might be a big ask. There are other options tho such as vet nursing which may be worth looking into.

When I applied (longer ago than I care to think about) the subject requirements were chemistry, biology and either maths or physics as a minimim. Lots of people did maths and physics. It seemed the norm to do 4 or even 5 a-levels when i was that age, im not sure if that's still the case? Have you looked at entry requirements?

Also, loving animals isnt enough. You say shes not cut out for medicine or dentistry - but veterinary is also medicine (and surgery, and dentistry...)

To be blunt she isn’t cut out for vet med if she’s changed her mind about Law based on what someone (who?) said about AI and lack of jobs. Did she even try and find out whether they were right or spouting bull?

You may think vet med is a great idea but it has to come from her, not you. And she has to absolutely want to devote every spare minute to it.

There are so many more options besides Law and some flavour of medicine!

This is not the case. Very few students now take four A levels unless one of them is further maths, as the workload is so intense. I cannot imagine many at all take five unless one is a home language tbh.

You are advised to take chem and bio, but some vet med schools are happy with one of those and one other from a short list of sciences. Bristol for example wants Chemistry and one of Biology, Physics, Mathematics or Further Mathematics. Edinburgh wants chemistry and biology, as does Nottingham. I don't know of any that require chem/bio and maths or physics, no other possible third option.

ETA I agree tho that the desire needs to come from her and it needs to be a real commitment.

@MrPickles73 please check each Uni as you don't need AAA. Some need AAB. You don't need maths or physics. You do not need 4 A levels. Or an EPQ.
What you need is a good amount of varied work experience to ensure you know what you're getting into. Customer facing jobs count. You need to want to do it, as it's 5 years of hard work (& hard play !).
There is a job issue with new vets as it costs practices to hire a new grad. Salaries are not high (£36,000 starting). But if you love it then it's great.
Said as the mum of a vet and a teacher who helps students get in.

Thankyou @mumsneedwine - I have checked and just about all courses with take chemistry, biology and another A level. I have been advised by various friends with kids (some of which are teachers) that unis just want 3 A levels and no extra EPQ etc. Cambridge is A*AA, several are AAA and then SRUC is minimum ABB. I'm not too concerned about the 7 in Biology as she as predicted an 8 so I think it was just an 'on the day' thing.

She is a grafter though and on top of school, horse and various sports has a part time job so certainly has customer facing experience. Additionally horse lives on a sheep farm and we have friends in dairy farming and horse breeding so work experience shouldn't be hard to come by. She really enjoys looking after horses and also enjoyed the lambing so I think she should try some other things and see how she gets on..

But thankyou for your input! V useful.

Notts AAB. Harper Keele, Surrey also give AAb sometimes. She does need to get some actual vet experience. Email practice managers at as many as you have locally. You do need to be able to reflect on this in the forms you have to fill in once applied. Each uni uses different ones and styles but they use these to select for interview, not the PS. And interviews are easier to do well in if have experience to talk about.

This counts as wex.

https://xerte.nottingham.ac.uk/play_56173

Here are Liverpools requirements. Make sure you have references for everywhere, with dates on headed paper. Liverpool interview everyone who has the right wex.

Great intel from @mumsneedwine there.

Yes you are right that Notts is AAB, I managed to miss that fact. I might be wary of Nottingham uni just now tho. Certainly research first. Also Notts vets are out at Sutton Bonnington rather than on the campus. Mind you if you want to be a vet I guess you won’t mind where you are?

Being a vet means often not being on a main campus. RVC is in Camden, then Potters Bar. Bristol, 3 years in city then Langford. Liverpool same set up. Aber 2 years then off to Potters Bar. At least at Notts you stay in the same place for 5 years! Cambs looks stable now but it's been touch and go.
Notts strikes affect vet much less than other courses. And strikes happening lots of places next year.
It's a v competitive course and they choose you. One offer is all you need (& v often all you get).

Does she realise she'll need to be performing surgical ops on anaesthetised animals, including dentistry? People often think being a vet is just consultations but they have to perform surgery too.

Not required nowadays. Literally no uni asks for 3 sciences or more than 3 A-levels for Vet Med, but many ask for Chemistry and Biology. Chemistry especially is a must for Vet Med.

Yes that's very true. I was at Bristol and all the vets I knew vanished after the third year (my course was four years so I was still there). I would just say that a Notts vet needed to be aware of where they will be in case they thought they were going to the campus (which is pretty near the city really). But yes, if you want to be a vet you probably can't afford to be too picky anyway. Some/many? YP get no offers initially (I know at least three who only got offers when they applied with grades in hand).

There's another thread on "don't go to Nottingham" and I have seen that view expressed elsewhere on this board too. But I would agree that there are strikes all over the place (which is obviously a general concern of course).

I wouldn’t push her in to a career as a vet if she doesn’t really want to be a vet. It’s not an easy or family friendly career choice.
There is a reason why vets are amount the highest suicide rates of any profession.
It’s not a particularly well paying job, the hours are long and unsociable. The clients are horrible.
I would choose something else that she actually wants to do

@Helpwithdivorce I'm surprised you say it's not a well.paid.job. We have two friends who are vets. One now runs her own practice and has two kids at private boarding school and the other married another vet and they also had their own practice and three kids at private school. Both are smart women with kids and extremely successful.

Btw I'm a Solicitor and I don't the legal job market is bad at the moment 🤷‍♀️ Law professionals use a lot of AI for sure but a human still has to check the AI output. If you're smart with the area of law you qualify in, I think it's a great and very versatile career path. Certainly easier uni workload than Vet Med.

@XelaM she spoke to a school friend of mine who worked for one of the big London firms and she said entry level jobs in law are disappearing due to AI. They still have more senior staff to check stuff but all the grunt work and research is moving to AI. Did you do a law degree or something else and then a law conversion?

I think it's worth to do various work experience to find out what she does / doesn't enjoy. TBh at 16 I had no idea what I wanted to do and did work experience to try to narrow the choice down..

It's v v difficult to start own practice these days. And many independent vets sold to the corporates, making themselves very wealthy. Unfortunately for newer vets salaries are not as good.

Start on approx £36,000, maybe earning £50,000 after 7-8 years. Max about £60-70,000 unless do further qualifications (& sometimes even with a certificate not much higher). Yes, not paltry, but certainly not enough to put kids through private school.

And will have a £85,000+ student loan.

@mumsneedwine is it because these people are older and got their feet in the independent practice before the corporates came along? One lady started her practice in 2021. We are in the sticks so most of the vets around here are independent - at the most three practices.

And getting the first job is becoming harder. The requirement of GDP and the need for a practice to have a trained supervisor has put some places off hiring.

Your DD should spend a week with your friends and have a chat about the job. My DD loves it but works v v long hours, on call nights and rarely finishes on time.

@MrPickles73 your friend must have had some money behind her to start in 2021. It's v expensive to buy a practice or set a new one up. And likely earned more in the preceding years - salaries have been held down by the corporates.

It's not the vets themselves who earn the money - they take the abuse though ! The practice owners/corporates make the profit

If I had my time again, I would not be a vet. I can look back and see it was my mother living her dream through me, encouraging me to do something that wasn't an option for her. I left clinical work for industry and a huge payrise, less stress and a lot more flexibility. No one should become a vet expecting to afford private school off their salary etc - we can, off my husband's, although I do now earn well.

I am very old, it was a AAB entry in my era, but that was nearly 40 years ago, O level years and a time when the profession had been male dominated.