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How true is this for university academics?

33 replies

MyJawisFred · 10/10/2026 04:25

If you had to be honest, would you say that the average lecturer/teacher/academic who provides education to students at Oxford or Cambridge University is better/more intelligent than their counterparts at a different university, especially the less prestigious the university is?

This is asked because if you look at the background of certain professors at Oxford for certain subjects they tend to have really illustrious academic credentials often having gone to Oxbridge themselves whereas professors teaching the same subject at some other university like Liverpool or Canterbury tend not to have gone to Oxbridge and have gone to less prestigious universities. Also, it seems like it is often the case that the head of a certain department at Cambridge has previously worked at Oxford whereas the head of a particular department at Birmingham may have previously worked not at Oxbridge but at Falmouth.

OP posts:
TheAutumnCrow · 10/10/2026 04:35

Well, Professor Brian Cox only went to Manchester University and only teaches at Manchester University so he must be a bit rubbish, then?

smarmygram · 10/10/2026 05:01

University recruitment (and the working environment) is an absolute shitshow, regardless of university. Ponzi or pyramid scheme is often the descriptor.

Top-heavy structures with senior people who are incapable of behaving professionally (but they can't be removed easily).

Lots of younger people chasing the academic dream but enduring incredibly poor working conditions.

Oxbridge runs massive PR campaigns to get people to self-fund their postgraduate studies (could be well over £100000 for a doctorate) and claims it will be worth it for the contacts they'll make or future earnings.

It certainly isn't guaranteed, especially if the student isn't starting from money or high professional status and networks in the first place.

I know people who just ended up in lots of debt.

KindlySurfiingPlatypus · 10/10/2026 06:02

In theory - universities aren't supposed to be primarily places of education, but places of research where the frontiers of human knowledge are being continuously expanded by people who have learned all they can about the current limits of knowledge in their field and dedicate themselves to creating new knowledge. Therefore education is a secondary purpose, merely the means by which the next generation acquire the base knowledge from which they can subsequently fulfil that primary purpose.

Highly respected academics who get senior positions in universities may have a variety of backgrounds because the building blocks of academic reputation is measured in terms of each individual's research impact - academic journals have a peer-review process where each person's research output is assessed for whether it is rigorously formulated and adds to human knowledge in the field, and once it is published the impact of that new bit of knowlege is measured in terms of how frequently it is subsequently cited - ie to what extent it is a building block towards creating the next layer of knowledge. Therefore if your research is doing something important that is subsequently useful to other researchers your personal citation impact increases. If you are a great networker and an interesting speaker at conferences then more people will cite your work in their own, and you really don't need to have started at Oxbridge to do well here. Universities are desperate to recruit academics with high impact because the periodical central assessment of each university department will count up the impact of the staff of the department.

Teaching undergraduates is relatively low in the priority list. You've got to do it because that's how your future postgraduate students, postdoctoral researchers and junior academics will eventually come from. The waste products of this process are educated graduates who don't want to be academic researchers who go off into the world and do something else.

The whole system gets skewed by governments deciding that this "waste product" is ultimately a good thing and starts pushing for way more undergraduate students than the above process needs, in order to supply the country with vast numbers of graduates. You therefore need to staff hundreds of universities instead of just a few dozen and frankly there aren't enough genuinely impactful researchers in each field to provide that staffing so some universities have staff whose research impact is somewhat mediocre, and thousands of undergraduates get degrees having learned in departments where very little impactful research is happening and with a relatively low chance of being able to springboard from that into doing impactful work themselves - although it is possible.

But looking at the original undergraduate university of people who are currently at the top of their field is confusing correlation and causation @MyJawisFred - the people who thrive in this system and who end up doing genuinely inspired and impactful research are going to have been intelligent and hungry for knowledge from an early age, and the process by which Oxbridge selects its successful undergraduate students is optimised to try to identify and recruit the 18 year olds who are most likely to eventually become highly impactful and inspirational researchers in their field in 10-15 years time. So its not surprising that there's a lot of Oxbridge graduates among the research staff of both Oxbridge and non-oxbridge universities.

However, the Heads of Departments are very rarely the most impactful researchers. Academics are not naturally gregarious or cooperative and leading them and getting them to do stuff is not an easy job. The HoD must have a sufficiently decent research impact to command respect but must also be a skilled diplomat and negotiator and have the personal charisma to get a bunch of sometimes vain, selfserving and backbiting academics to work together as a coherent department. That set of talents isn't quite the same as the talents of those who are actually the very best researchers in their field, who really don't want the hassle and admin of being HoD.

TruffleSlinky · 10/10/2026 06:39

I went to Cambridge. I'm a lecturer at a fairly low ranking university because it's the one closest to my home. It's genuinely as simple as that for me!

dizzydizzydizzy · 10/10/2026 06:53

DC1 went to a a top flight uni, just below Oxbridge. Some of the lecturers were appalling at teaching, some were very good. I expect it is much the same at Oxbridge. DC2 is a at another good but lower ranked university - the main difference from my perspective is that the expectations at DC1’s uni were far higher and so DC1 had to work much harder than DC2. All the students at DC1’s uni are absolutely the cream - DC1 got 4 x Astar at A-Lavel and that was nothing special there.

ListenToAlfDubs · 10/10/2026 06:56

In my discipline, the current research at Oxford is poor quality and those academics would not be able to get a job at other research intensive universities. I don't know any of those in post, but I'd guess they did well at interview because they were products of the same system.

Trappedinthecastofawhodunnit · 10/10/2026 07:03

My friends son has just finished Physics at Oxford- he was very disappointed at the quality of the lecturers, he had assumed they would be better. There were quite a few shit lecturer at my old established university too. I think there are crap people in every job.

Smokeywater · 10/10/2026 07:10

The sad story of Jason Ardnay shows that many criteria are used to select lecturers

Trappedinthecastofawhodunnit · 10/10/2026 07:10

TheAutumnCrow · 10/10/2026 04:35

Well, Professor Brian Cox only went to Manchester University and only teaches at Manchester University so he must be a bit rubbish, then?

It’s funny because I have heard rumours from another Prof in his field that he is poorly regarded. All about the media not enough anbout the Physics apparently.

Smokeywater · 10/10/2026 07:12

I just looked up the salaries of a tutor on search assist - they are not high
Comparison with Other Roles
Job TitleAverage Salary (per year)Average Hourly Rate
Lecturer
£36,776
£17.66
Associate Professor
£64,893
£31.19
Professor
£85,576
£41.14
Graduate Assistant
£18,500
£8.89
Teaching Assistant
£19.61
£19.61

MickyMoonshine · 10/10/2026 08:09

Well, I studied at a post 92 and now work at a post 92 so wonder what that makes me??

Although, I’ve progressed into a relatively senior position because I’m good a leading a team, I was an excellent course leader and I understand how to recruit to courses. I understand the importance of student experience and how to develop the employability of our students.

These skills are often missing in traditional academics who see it all as someone else’s job.
I manage a team of academics and there are a few who are very high profile and leaders in their field. I wouldn’t put them in front of a group of applicants or send them on an international recruitment trip though! They’re also the ones I have to chase to do the administrative side of the job and need the most support.
But they write excellent papers and bring in research money.

poetryandwine · 10/10/2026 08:14

This is becoming less relevant as more and more academic staff are not British, anyway. At least Russell Group + STEM staff.

My uni is in the tier just below Oxbridge and a plurality of British staff in STEM probably have undergraduate degrees from Oxbridge. But I also agree that the undergraduate teaching is often better at post 1992 universities focusing more on teaching and less on research. The Russell Group + are currently caught in an impossible situation.

DH is another who chose to move from Cambridge for his PhD, turning down a funded place, because their research in his area was then narrow and old fashioned. It was a good move for his career.

I agree strongly with @KindlySurfiingPlatypus that HoDs are rarely the most impactful researchers. (Occasionally they are, so I hope no HoD reading this feels criticised.) But guiding and hopefully protecting a School during hard times is a valuable role when performed well, perfect for someone with good admin skills in a fallow period.

MickyMoonshine · 10/10/2026 08:34

poetryandwine · 10/10/2026 08:14

This is becoming less relevant as more and more academic staff are not British, anyway. At least Russell Group + STEM staff.

My uni is in the tier just below Oxbridge and a plurality of British staff in STEM probably have undergraduate degrees from Oxbridge. But I also agree that the undergraduate teaching is often better at post 1992 universities focusing more on teaching and less on research. The Russell Group + are currently caught in an impossible situation.

DH is another who chose to move from Cambridge for his PhD, turning down a funded place, because their research in his area was then narrow and old fashioned. It was a good move for his career.

I agree strongly with @KindlySurfiingPlatypus that HoDs are rarely the most impactful researchers. (Occasionally they are, so I hope no HoD reading this feels criticised.) But guiding and hopefully protecting a School during hard times is a valuable role when performed well, perfect for someone with good admin skills in a fallow period.

I 100% agree. The best HoDs and Subject Leads I know are not the most research active because they’re busy running their school or department. I just wish that was recognised when it came to professional promotion!

Trappedinthecastofawhodunnit · 10/10/2026 08:44

One of the our class reps tried to dethrone a lecturer who had made no attempt to teach - he was told that was going to be impossible for undisclosed political reasons, so we were told informally that if you put your name on your exam paper you'd pass. And that is exactly what happened.

IzzyLeng · 10/10/2026 08:51

I’m a HoD, my research impact is dire and I don’t mind admitting that. I’m at a post 92. No idea really how I got the job but I’m very well thought of by my colleagues and my boss says I do a great job and is really happy with me. I’m definitely more focused on the admin/organisation and quite a lot of teaching. The rest of my team are focused on teaching over research.

I doubt any of us would get a job at Cambridge or Oxford. I also doubt any of us care. I don’t know whether it makes us less intelligent. I think given the time and opportunity I could produce some excellent research/undertake a PhD but it’s not going to happen in this current climate.

Like @TruffleSlinky I’m at the university closest to my home and have no desire to move or commute. My boss very nicely frequently tells me that if our institution ever closes my course down I’m probably unemployable due to lack of research and qualifications. They’re trying to encourage me to self fund a PhD and do it in my own time. I just laugh and say that’s fine. I’d be quite happy not working in academia and would find something totally different to do.

Jackospice · 10/10/2026 09:04

Dunno, seems like the theory is missing a lot of real world understanding. Why do people go to less prestigious universities or take jobs at them for example. Most ‘top academics’ at top institutions are men aren’t they? Do you think men are more intelligent than women? Or might there be other factors at play in them getting the top jobs?

MostlyGhostly · 10/10/2026 09:28

University research/ teaching staff don’t get tenured roles, or promoted, on intelligence or being “better” in an objective way. It’s based on research income secured, wider impact of research, number of published papers and prestige of the journals in which those papers are published. An objective criteria can’t be applied to much of that as successful academic careers come from being interested in the types of research that attracts funding (such as cancer research) ; being able to churn out papers (hello men with wives who pick up most of the work in the home); being tenacious in the face of feedback and criticism from journals and funders; having a cheerleader/ mentor who is senior and successful to help you along. So, much like in other careers, success in academia comes from a bit of hard work, a lot of resilience, a lot of who you know/ who likes you/ if you will fit in plus a lot of good fortune/ right place right time.

Your observation that Oxbridge staff and graduates tend to get promoted within Oxbridge likely fits with the who you know and who likes you criteria and being a seen as a good fit with the culture.

rhabarbarmarmelade · 10/10/2026 09:32

There is a ranking for this - look at Research Excellence Framework. Oxford and Cambridge do not come top of subjects and often are quite far down the ranking, as there is far less pressure to publish. Also Oxbridge tend only to hire from each other or abroad. So, in short NO.

Cars4Gov · 10/10/2026 09:45

I don't think you can generalise because Uni departments vary widely, as clearly demonstrated by the Jason Arday scandal. The students who studied in that department are demanding refunds.

As mentioned above Prof Cox at Manchester is the headliner but I understand his department is one of the largest in the UK with exceptional facilities for Physics and is ranked joint 1st in research. It has very high entry requirements because it's in demand..I think that's likely to contribute to lecturers wanting to work there which must help with the quality of teaching.

Mumteedum · 10/10/2026 09:51

Funny question... There's lots of factors. Oxford and Cambridge and RG unis are hugely about research. Research led teaching is wonderful but not all academics are great at the teaching side.

Then add into that you have the post 92 unis, which often cater to a difference demographic. They might have huge amounts of students from low socio economic backgrounds/commuting students, SEN students etc. Academic staff who teach them may be amazing lecturers with innovative approaches for inclusion etc, but could be on teaching only contracts and not published as researchers.

Add to that, a good percentage of staff are hourly paid contracted staff with varying varied experience. Some might get a permanent job. Many would not. Some will only have an UG degree and no teaching qualifications. Now some of them might still be good at the teaching side, some won't.

Intelligence? Questionable quality for student experience in my opinion. Some of my colleagues are not especially intelligent, but they do a decent job and care about the teaching and student experience. Some of them are neither very intelligent nor particularly good at teaching but get by. Some of them are very intelligent and do only teaching in their contract. Some are research involved academics and very intelligent and have lots of publications. Some are in research contracts and publish bugger all and are lazy in all aspects of their job! Some teach subjects that are reliant on practice and the academic staff in those areas can be amazing practitioners and lecturers but not research active and may have come into academia from industry bringing lots of real world experience.

I think it depends what the student/applicant wants and needs. In some subjects, I can completely understand wanting to go to xx uni and take Prof Wotsits' modules because it's an area you are excited by and their research is cutting edge.

yonem · 10/10/2026 09:56

My DH studied at Oxbridge and is now an academic at a non-Russell group university. His colleagues went to a range of universities including Oxbridge and the one they work at but all are plenty intelligent. It’s about which university specialises in the area that they specialise in - this one ranks above Oxbridge for that and has a much larger department, better network etc.

Mumteedum · 10/10/2026 09:57

IzzyLeng · 10/10/2026 08:51

I’m a HoD, my research impact is dire and I don’t mind admitting that. I’m at a post 92. No idea really how I got the job but I’m very well thought of by my colleagues and my boss says I do a great job and is really happy with me. I’m definitely more focused on the admin/organisation and quite a lot of teaching. The rest of my team are focused on teaching over research.

I doubt any of us would get a job at Cambridge or Oxford. I also doubt any of us care. I don’t know whether it makes us less intelligent. I think given the time and opportunity I could produce some excellent research/undertake a PhD but it’s not going to happen in this current climate.

Like @TruffleSlinky I’m at the university closest to my home and have no desire to move or commute. My boss very nicely frequently tells me that if our institution ever closes my course down I’m probably unemployable due to lack of research and qualifications. They’re trying to encourage me to self fund a PhD and do it in my own time. I just laugh and say that’s fine. I’d be quite happy not working in academia and would find something totally different to do.

Love this post! What a joke PhDs are when staff have to take a pay cut to have the time to do one , if you haven't had one prior to being hired, AND have to pay their institution to do it ! The only people I see doing this are pretty privileged really. Partners with good income who can pick up the parenting and life admin!

I doubt I'll ever do a PhD. Would quite like to in some ways but haven't got the finances, support or energy! Wouldn't have much impact on my career and if my course closes, I'll be leaving academia entirely too I think.

RandomMess · 10/10/2026 10:06

What I found fascinating is that a professor I know moved from Oxford to my local low ranking university and his overseas research funders all came with him from small to millions. They ranked him above being associated with Oxford.

Unfortunately research costs money and student income is used to bridge the gap between the cost of the research and external funding. Financially the whole sector is in a huge mess.

Gwenhwyfar · 10/10/2026 10:13

Trappedinthecastofawhodunnit · 10/10/2026 08:44

One of the our class reps tried to dethrone a lecturer who had made no attempt to teach - he was told that was going to be impossible for undisclosed political reasons, so we were told informally that if you put your name on your exam paper you'd pass. And that is exactly what happened.

We had a good lecturer who told us he was in danger of being sacked because his research wasn't 'enough'. I don't remember if it was not good enough or not enough of it. It seemed strange to me as a time as I saw university as just another school with teachers who weren't very good because they hadn't been given any training in teaching or public speaking.

DidoAndAeneasWereInLove · 10/10/2026 10:18

I chose not to go to Oxford but went to a different highly ranked uni. I’m not a lecturer at a middle ranking uni. My research is not ground breaking in any way and it’s not my main focus but I’m an excellent teacher. My students do really well with me and I get fantastic feedback. They actively choose my modules over more prestigious colleagues for this reason.

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