dreading parental contribution discussion with ex - pls help!

[OmegaAlpha]

While my DD17 is prepping for 2027 uni entry, I am worrying about how to help her financially. I believe she will be assessed on my income of 25/26, which is £57K, so will only receive half the maintenance loan - about £5.8K. She wants to study away from home, out of London.

She does have a child trust fund (thank you Gordon Brown!) which thanks to regular payments and my parents, would actually cover the difference, but I would prefer it if she could hold on to at least some of it for extra costs/emergencies/further study, and receive some parental contributions, which I need to discuss with my ex - never the easiest person to discuss money with.

He is self-employed, and switches between boasting about the incredible jobs he's doing (art fabrication/building/installation), and telling me he can't afford to pay for kids' clubs etc. I have no way of finding out his actual income, as he pays himself in dividends, expenses, etc, as well as a basic salary.

I currently receive £600 a month CSM for DD and DS12, which I believe will reduce to £450 once she goes (this was worked out via the gov calculator, and not an official order, which I based on what he paid himself when we were together 10 years ago), and I will also lose a third of child benefit. I just about manage to pay a hefty mortgage and other costs out of my income (we live in zone 2 London), but by cutting out holidays, eating out, being vv frugal, I might be able to also contribute. I can't move because of DS12 (and my own work), but may possibly be able to rent out DD's room on an ad hoc basis.

Are there any other separated parents on here who can advise me on how to discuss this with ex, and suggestions/models as to what to ask for?

I want to keep my DD out of this entirely, as she is already worrying about the cost of it all.

Nothing helpful to add but letting you know I'm crossing my fingers for you - my useless ex gave my DS a grand at the start of his first year (after fuck all CM for years) and nothing else. If it wasn't for my Dad DS wouldn't have been able to go to Uni, even with full grant etc.

The whole system is a disgrace.

@OmegaAlpha

Re keeping DD out of the loop, it might be worth having another think about it. Since she’ll be an adult soon and taking on a massive chunk of student loans for uni, involving her could be really helpful. Maybe not right at the start, but later on once you two have agreed on a plan? Personally I’d be super transparent and show her the full calculation and both parental contributions so she knows where she stands.

In that case, she won’t be able to have a job during term time anyway.

I know she wants to study away from home, but it doesn’t really make sense does it because London has some of the best unis for most courses and also good links with employment. I would suggest halls for the first year and save/use trust fund towards that and then live at home. That is if the ex won’t contribute. There are also more job opportunities in London.

He must earn more than me - he was earning more when we were together 10 years ago and his business has grown massively. I just have no way of knowing and he would never be honest with me. He pays himself through dividends etc, so can make himself look like a lower earner, but wouldn't want to do that officially - like another PP on here, the way I got him to pay child support (he tried to wriggle out of it numerous times) was to say, ok then, I will just go through the CSM. That always made him pay what I asked for, as he knew he would have to pay more if there was a real investigation into his finances.

My DD did ask him recently who was the lower earner, as she was filling in some uni form that asked the question, and apparently he got v angry at being asked. Money is something he has always been v secretive about, hence my anxiety about these sort of dealings. I just don't trust him or believe him when he says he can't afford to buy our DS shin pads, for instance, when he can afford ski trips and the rest.

The issue for me is that I know I'll have to pay half the contributions, with less child support, and it will be a real stretch for me, and it's annoying, as he will moan all the way, when he can probably afford to pay more. But oh well, such is life.

God I'm sorry. It is a shit system - it really doesn't make sense to stop all requirements for child support, and yet expect single parents who have been estranged for years to suddenly be able to come to an agreement as to how to support their (adult) children through uni. There's not much advice out there for families like ours

Oh yes definitely, once we have made an agreement, I'll go through it all with her. For starters, I'd quite like to make a plan that runs throughout the year (ie, 10 months' support spread over 12 monthly payments), so that she learns to budget that for term-time, and be aware that there won't be anything extra over holidays, as an incentive for her to find work.
I just don't want her to have to deal with asking her dad for money. I also want to establish my child support for our DS going forward, so that is part of the negotiations for me.

The system is crazy.
As you dont always know from birth if the child will go
So could be
child doesnt go - some parents ask for rent as no CB or other benefits

or child goes and costs say 6k a year so 18k. Which instead of getting £200 a month in from kids rent your 500 a month so 700 down!

An 18yo can require parents to pay 18k while the kid does maybe a subject the parents dont agree.

And its based on residence so often its mums (and potentially the unrelated boyfriend) paying.

I propose a new college fund like in usa.
So maybe getting 25% added or tax. And can be used for college or maybe the child pension or child other training etc.

But your dc is lucky to have the ctf as my dc is 14 and it didnt exist.

The other issue is putting money in dc name which they can waste
but also if they dont go to uni and are instead unemployed they may have too high savings for benefits.

We put money in isas for dc which is good because our earnings would still require paying towards except we are strugglibg as it is!
15k per child is a lot extra in a parents pension fund for eg

Oxbridge don't like students working part-time jobs during uni. The workload is too much I think.

Just to warn you, legally, he doesn't have to contribute a thing to your DD at Uni. The means test is done on the resident parent's household income, and the expectation is that household tops up the income as it's the amount that household is assessed as being able to contribute (in reality, it fails both on affordability, and being enough for DC to live on in many Uni towns).

Obviously, hopefully he will be decent about it, and take responsibility for supporting his child through Uni. But I wouldn't assume he'd split the costs with you 50/50, and sadly it's not something you can enforce if he chooses not to.

I can't help with your question but I can confirm that Oxford/Cambridge have some of the lowest accommodation costs of any uni. They subsidise it by renting the rooms out during the summer. Given that you are understandably worried about the costs of uni, it is worth comparing the costs of halls and average student accommodation at the various unis as they differ so wildly. My DD went to uni in the north where she paid just under £5k /yr but friends kids are paying £9-12k at some unis.

yes - that would be good!

Yes it's bonkers. That's the main thing that's worrying me - I'll be £150-300 down on child support, but also have to find at least another £200 to support her, so will be up to £500 down (as well as the reduced child benefit), while having to stay in the house I'm in for my youngest. It makes no sense. I don't think he will be shit, and will give her at least what he's not giving me, it's more that I will struggle to make up the shortfall. Anyway, as another PP rightly points out, I should be able to rent her room Mon-Fri termtime, as we are very near a major London teaching hospital, so that will pay for it (but I've never done anything like that, and will have to sort my house out first, and have a fear of taking on a lodger even part-time with my DS still in the house).

yes, it would be amazing if she got into Oxbridge, and she has the predicted grades, but I know it's a lottery, and we're state school, with no experience of Oxbridge applications, so we aren't banking on it. Her next fave is Edinburgh, which would be four years😱.

yes, thanks - I think legally neither of us have to contribute, but obviously I would do whatever I could, and I think he would match me (but he might argue that he has to pay a lot less child support for the younger one), so I think I just have to bite the bullet and have the convo.

It's been really helpful starting this thread, and having all your brilliant responses, I am very grateful. If anything, it's been a kick up the backside - I'm just going to have to woman up and tell him this is what is expected of us, and this is his share of the costs. Then deal with whatever fall out comes.

Thanks all x

Thanks this is helpful (although the amounts will hopefully be less!).

I'm not sure what we'll do when she's home - she currently spends 2/3 nights at her dad's, and may want to continue this in hols, if only to keep her lil bro company :)

We looked at uni accommodation prices and ruled out certain unis based in cost of accommodation eg London ,bath , Bristol, Manchester , York etc ( need to look at second year accommodation prices too as some are affordable first year but not the rest ) .
dd worked summers and Saturdays and managed to save almost £4000’which also helped. You or her need to talk to your ex, but also she needs to be aware of where it’s possible and not possible to attend based on cost. It shouldn’t be like this but unfortunately it is .
Sje will be less worried if you discuss it together and come up with a plan together .

I think you would be entirely reasonable to sit down with DD and run through practicalities. Getting to and from Edinburgh would be more costly than getting to many unis from London, and why would she choose to go to a university where all the local students study for free but she has to accrue debt for example?

As a PP have said, there are many great universities in London if Oxbridge doesn’t work out.

If you spell out to her what you can afford to contribute, she will be able to work out what universities are actually practical for her. She can then talk to her dad about how much he will contribute.

It is also worth looking beyond the degree itself. If her choice of subject is less likely to lead straight into an obvious job, maybe she needs to consider that too. Is it worth also applying for degree apprenticeships? Should she take a gap year to gain money and experience?

The absolute minimum parents should give is the difference between the loan they get and the maximum loan
Should be paid equally by you and your ex,and explained to him as a payment due by him to your daughter
Our DC worked in the long holidays , didn’t want them working term time

May I ask where? We visited York, Lancaster, and Leeds, where the rooms are £8-10k.

Do encourage her to research online for Oxbridge. Most colleges offer really helpful insights into how the personal statement works, interviews etc.
If she's bright and has good grades and loves her subject (like genuinely loves) then she has a good a chance as any. And definitely Oxbridge is actually reasonable costs wise.

I know you dont want DD to have to get invoved but honestly as a fellow parallel parenter, the kids are often more successful than you at getting the money. Maybe she and you could draft an email together that she sends to him.
She can position it as "dad I am trying to work out how I can afford to go to uni. The system means that I am getting a loan of xx which is a 50pc loan. Mum says she can afford to give me half the remainder. Are you able to help me with the other half?"
If he has the money I bet he'd consider it

She went to Sheffield University. Had a great time there and accommodation was reasonable. There were some more expensive options but she was always able to find cheaper ones.

She doesn’t have to live away that’s her choice. Almost a third of uni students are staying at home these days for these exact reasons. You have amazing universities in London. If dad is not going to do financial contribution look at a local university or do gap year with job. Or do uni and she gets a job.

Ah. Sheffield doesn’t do my DC’s course, so it wasn’t ever on their radar when researching unis.

That is a shame. What is she hoping to study?