What super-curricular activities help with Oxbridge Natural Sciences applications?

[AddledPeacock]

DS hoping to apply to Oxbridge for Natural Sciences/similar. Undecided between Oxford vs Cambridge, will be going to Sept open days. I understand they don’t give a monkeys about extra curricular activities eg captain of football team, DofE, but focus on super curricular activities. I’d never even heard of the term until we started looking at Oxbridge!

What sort of things would this look like for STEM subjects? There is lots of mention about reading additional books around the subject but I’m not sure how you would demonstrate that in a PS although I can see how you could talk about the concepts in an interview.

Slightly concerned as a friend is employing a tutor to discuss her subject with her DS and sending him to a v expensive summer school focussed on this subject (humanities) which she reckons ticks the super curricular box. Surely the colleges can’t be expecting this as the bar, it precludes most kids? If this is what we are going up against I’m not sure where to start to support him in demonstrating impressive supercurriculars!

Just going into Y12 but want to hit the ground running. Thanks.

Maths - doing maths challenges (junior/intermediate/senior) with follow on challenges of qualified (these are usually through the school)

https://ukmt.org.uk/intermediate-challenges/intermediate-mathematical-challenge

Also physics Olympiad
https://www.bpho.org.uk/

Chemistry Olympiad
https://edu.rsc.org/enrichment/uk-chemistry-olympiad

stuff like doing summer courses - eg RI offer free ones in London

https://www.rigb.org/season/holiday-workshops

plus also you can enter the ballot for free spaces to watch the Christmas lectures.

there are lots of stem related summer camps as well - eg this sort of thing

https://www.spacecentre.co.uk/whats-on/summer-holiday-clubs/

in addition many teens follow YouTube science/maths channels such as eg

Matt Parker
https://standupmaths.com/youtube/

In addition most universities do a science week at some point in the year with activities for children and young people - this is my local one.

https://www.festival.cam.ac.uk/
(Cambridge now just call it a festival)

there are also quite a few websites to explore further in stem -

https://parallel.org.uk/
is good for maths, as is joining a maths circle either online or in person if he can find one.

https://isaacscience.org/
is the best I know for science.

Oh wow @Octavia64, thank you very much for taking the time to put this together! I had heard of the Olympiad challenges but didn’t realise they extended beyond Maths. This gives a much more practical view of the things he should focus on to demonstrate subject interest. Thanks once again.

Nobody needs to pay for a tutor or a summer school. Oxford runs free support & summer schools for state school applicants through their Uniq scheme. Cambridge has a scheme called HE+. The Sutton Trust also runs free activities. Both Oxford & Cambridge give lots of ideas on their websites.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/supercurricular-hub

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/apply/before/improve-application

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/events/masterclasses

https://summerschools.suttontrust.com/

https://www.uniq.ox.ac.uk/

Even if your own DC isn't eligible for Uniq or the Sutton Trust, these may help others.

My understanding is that nowadays they’re not likely to be impressed by activities which are largely a function of privilege, or applicants who have obviously been tutored. Your friend may be doing her DC a disservice.

In my Cambridge interview which admittedly was a long time ago we discussed academic topics relating to my subject. If you’ve not read or learnt anything at all beyond the basic a level syllabus it will be clear in about 5 seconds.

libraries are free. YouTube channels for maths and physics are free.

I went to Cambridge from a deprived comp.

DD was given 3 "A Short Introduction To..." books on her Uniq course. She read them. She wrote an EPQ on a topic relevant to her course. She found the "summer after A levels for successful applicants" reading list for her course and read something from each of the 3 strands, which were all available in Waterstones or her school library. Job done.

I work with students applying to these universities. They aren't necessarily looking for the Olympiads and big events; they want curiosity within the subject. Over the next year, your son needs to identify his specific area of interest. It won't be that he's interested in Natural Sciences, but that he's fascinated by how microscopic structures in their wings create shimmering, changing colours or the chemistry behind fungal toxins and the characteristics that distinguish edible species from dangerous ones.

At the start of Year 12, purchase a couple of scientific journals in his area of interest (or he may have access through school). Have him pick one article to read each week. [Alternatively, use Google Scholar.] If you or another adult has time, discuss the article. What did he find interesting? How does this relate to what he's learnt at school? What did he disagree with or feel wasn't right? Or, where might a study have been weak (not a large enough sample size or not carried out over a long enough period of time)? What does this make him wonder about?

He also needs to be reading books in his subject area. The Oxbridge department websites will give suggestions. Don't stick to just those as most applicants will and he needs to stand out. When he is struck by a topic (within his subject area), encourage him to delve deeply -- it will make his application more interesting to read and him more interesting to talk with during interviews.

The Olympiads help applications, but so can DofE (to a much lesser degree). Other applicable supercurriculars might include: volunteering in a lab or natural science museum, conducting experiments on his own, or taking courses in person or online (free is fine and you don't need to pay for the certificate).

UCAS (the application portal) allows an applicant 4000 characters to answer: Why do you want to study this course or subject? How have your qualifications and studies helped you to prepare for this course or subject? What else have you done to prepare outside of education, and why are these experiences useful?

My first suggestion to students is nearly always to create a resume. Often students don't have much at the start, but over time, even while in secondary school, it builds. Then, create a list responding to each of the 3 questions. What might he include? Where does his application feel lacking as of now? You'll both then be in a better spot to determine the path forward.

I’d suggest extra curricular activities that make the student more rounded so things like Duke of Edinburgh, Cadets, Sports, and clearly an interest in the actual subject (so reading the books, physics Olympiad etc).

They just need to show way-above-average interest in their subject.

@Octavia64 's advice is brilliant. I'd just add, with books, documentaries, online free courses etc, it's not enough to say he has read/watched/done them. He needs to demonstrate how he responded to them intellectually - how they inspired him to think differently about X or Y, or led him to further research into Z.

Before you spend money on academic journals and books @AddledPeacock check access via your local authority library. There's normally a section in the general online library wwbpage about research/reference resources.

There are plenty of good quality open access (free to read) science journals and articles, he could look for journals published by PLOS or Nature or the Royal Society or the learned society for the area he's interested in. Or use a university library web search and limit results to open access.

Google Scholar doesn't rank results by the quality/reliability of the journal so be cautious if you're not familiar with the subject area.

They’re not interested in D of E, sports or anything like that - maybe one sentence only if you must. We were told that Cambridge at the NS talk. A NS interview will be purely academic.

Well they were went I went there. Granted it was 20+ years ago. They’re differentiators vs the masses of students that are purely academic but lacking more broadly.

Besides, employers also look for the likes of DoE, cadets, sports at high level etc as it shows team work, leadership, comms skills, ability to apply oneself consistently

Applicants can devote 2 lines max to what they learned from an extracurricular, including D of E - persistence, organisational skills, any soft skills.

@ExpectMorethey’re also signifiers of privilege. Not all applicants will have had the opportunities to do those things. The differentiator will be the ability to show how interested you are in your subject - that is the thing that will get you shortlisted for interview and to do well at interview. Unfortunately your experience is well out of date. Hopefully OP’s dc will be attending the subject talk on the Open Day where they will talk about applications.

I always tell my students to tell a story with their personal statement, so not just read a book but then watched a YouTube video on the subject, went to a lecture… so it takes it from passive to more active.

And don’t be snobbish about the media - following someone relevant on TikTok can still demonstrate interest and passion. Listening to podcasts and YouTube all count. It is where you take that topic that make it interesting e.g watching a Mark Rober TikTok video then following it up by…

Check out the school library - quite a lot have an app (we have sora) that gives digital access to New Scientist, National Geographic, Science Focus, Sky at Night.

Lean into any passions, I’m a physics teacher so that is the way my examples will go. E,g If they are interested in F1 then there are loads of ways of showing passion - they could start an F1 fan club at school, read a book, look deeper into the specs etc…

The university wants to see how the student takes what they have done in the classroom and run with it, so pick something out a lesson and explore it further.

Oh and the most important thing - keep a note NOW of everything they read/watch/ listen to/ attend. It is surprisingly tricky to remember everything this time next year.

And have fun doing this! This should be easy as it is what they want to do, if they are having to force it, how keen are they?

One of the Cambridge links upthread explicitly says they’re only interested in Supercurriculars not extracurricular activities.

However, of course extracurriculars are great for young people’s personal development in all sorts of ways! They’re just not relevant to oxbridge applications.

Apologies, it might be because it’s a while since I was there and I went to the other one!

best wishes to anyone applying

@Dilemma999are they genuinely considered signs of privilege? I’m amazed and somewhat saddened. I come from a very disadvantaged background and thank my lucky stars that I was able to get involved with cadets, Duke of Edinburgh, and sports (was lucky to be sponsored as I’d never have afforded it!) as they were all free (as far as I can remember except for nominal donations to Duke of Edinburgh, which you could excuse yourself from by helping out with the admin!).

I get that some public schools push them (CCF rather and other cadet units) which means some folk going through those routes might be privileged but there’s still many community groups offering them, I hope?! It’s be a real shame if the likes of cadets / Duke of Ed is so longer available to disadvantaged kids for fear of them being labelled privileged.

All that DofE, Cadets, sports etc are indicative of is that you had parents with the means and motivation to ferry you around to activities.

Thankyou for this! How do you know which London ones are free? All the ones I clicked are ticketed £16+

Trust me, they had limited means. I was free school meals and we never had a car in the family so certainly no ferrying around. I was lucky the activities were free, there were hand me down clothing + equipment available (organised by the groups as they knew the children in the area had nothing) and I had a bike I could cycle to get me to where I needed to be!

Anyway, not to derail the thread. I’m just amazed they’re now considered a mark of privilege and saddened that’s the case as I think they provided a means of escape (in the moment and longer term) to those growing up in poverty. Funny how almost everything seems to be a sign of privilege now

Which science(s)? Cambridge has a Natural Sciences degree that narrows down later, but Oxford has separate sciences from the start, so there's quite a big difference to consider there.

The royal institution do a whole mix of talks she lectures and workshops, some in person and some online.

the ones aimed at adults are generally charged for, although you can get a years membership and go for free.

they usually pop up on the RI YouTube channel shortly afterwards.

https://youtube.com/@theroyalinstitution?si=GZv4pecN4KM7G9AV

they also run master classes for various ages of kids and teens over the summer and in some areas do master classes in schools aswell, but these are usually by invitation only.

These are the schools ones:

https://www.rigb.org/learning/ri-masterclasses

The summer workshops have finished for this year but they seem to have open science Saturdays on the first Saturday of each month with a talk at 2pm.

https://www.rigb.org/visit

@ExpectMore i think it is that the way a lot of these activities are now run means that they are just much more accessible if you have the parental financial and other support behind them. Eg DofE is run through an external company at our school who are a profit led org so it costs a lot. DS could have done it through Scouts which would have been much cheaper but wanted to do it with school friends so it cost a lot more. If a student wasn’t doing Scouts, that would likely be their only way of doing it at his school, so yes, it does become about privilege.

The extreme version of this is my friend paying >£5k for the summer school in hope of demonstrating super curricular interest in a subject, so I do hope they see through this and don’t overly reward it if I’m honest.

I do agree that extra curriculars are important for rounding, and I think it it good that a lot of other unis recognise them. But @SadiraOfTyr does have a point, a lot will be down to parental support. Don’t get me started on elite sport and how that seems to be overly dominated by kids with rich parents…

Thank you for the suggestions on super curriculars, much clearer on the sort of things that could be relevant. It really wasn’t a term I was familiar with so this has been really helpful!