Cambridge Law Degree

[LawDegree]

My son has a long held desire to study Law at Cambridge. I am managing his expectations as I know it is very, very difficult to get into!

Yesterday he got his GCSE results. He did amazingly with 9s across the board... except for English Language and Literature where he got two 7s (he was predicted 9s). He has no idea why and wants to get the papers back to have a look.

He is worried that this might affect his chances of getting into Cambridge to study Law, which is obviously a subject that relies on English and the abilities that subject shows. He knows 7s are excellent grades, but also knows Cambridge is something else.

He is not planning to do English A-Level (and never was) but is doing Classics, Politics and Mathematics. He is aware of the LNAT and also plans to enter Essay competitions to show his abilities.

Does anyone have any knowledge about what affect, if any, the 7s might have? I would obviously like reassurance for him, but I would rather people were brutally honest!

Thank you.

OK there is a lot of disagreement about this (!) but my understanding is (somewhat anecdotal):

• Oxford is more interested than Cambs in specific GCSE grades
• They look at 7+ anyway
• The subjects that relate to degree are more relevant

I see that the last point may affect your DS more. A friend of DS2's got in to Cambs to study maths with a 6 in his Eng lang but your DS's Eng grades may have more impact,. But as they are 7s that's probably OK.

What I would say is that he might want to look at this detail from Cambs about A level choices. This is a quote from the page I link below:

We recommend that you choose 2 of these A levels:

• English Literature
• a language, such as French, German, Spanish or Latin
• History
• Mathematics, which is useful for many courses at Cambridge, including Law

This applied to humanities degrees (not science obvs) btw which include law.
So he is taking maths, tick, but not a second one from that list; there is then a list of other "relevant" subjects which includes politics and class civ (I assume he is taking class civ? I don't know of a classics A level? if it is Latin then that's better as it ticks the "2 of these" box).

Would he consider history instead of class civ or politics. It might be an idea.

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/apply/before/choosing-high-school-subjects

Hope my post makes sense @LawDegree it's a bit confused!

TL:DR - his GCSEs are probs fine but he might want to change one of his A level choices to Eng lit or history. Or Latin or an MFL.

Quick AI Google search revealed

would 2 grade 7 gcse rest a* in English literature and language affect cambridge university acceptance for law degree
AI Overview

No, achieving two Grade 7s in English Literature and Language alongside a strong profile of other top grades will not prevent you from being accepted or getting an interview for a Law degree at the University of Cambridge.

How Cambridge Views GCSEs
No strict cut-offs: Cambridge does not have a formal minimum GCSE grade requirement for Law, and a Grade 7 (equivalent to an old Grade A) is a secure, high pass. 1, 2, 3]
Holistic evaluation: Admissions tutors look at your entire application rather than relying on a single grade. While many successful applicants have high numbers of 8s and 9s, a profile containing Grade 7s in core facilitating subjects remains competitive. 1, 2, 3]
Contextual data: Your GCSE results are evaluated relative to the average performance of your school. A Grade 7 achieved in a lower-achieving school environment carries even stronger weight. 1]

What Matters More Than GCSEs
A-Level Predictions: Securing top predicted grades (typically A*AA or higher) in rigorous essay-based subjects is far more critical than your GCSE breakdown. 1, 2]
Admissions Assessments: Your performance on the Cambridge Law Test or relevant written assessments heavily influences shortlisting. 1]
Interview Performance: Demonstrating legal and critical thinking potential during the interview stage can offset minor variations in past GCSE achievements.

Another Google search

The standard A-Level entry requirement for a Law degree (BA) at the University of Cambridge is AAA*. Cambridge does not require any specific A-Level subjects to apply for law, and offers are normally based on three full A-Levels taken in Year 13.

Grade and Subject Details

• Grades: The minimum standard offer is AAA, though individual colleges may occasionally ask for higher grades or an A in a specific subject depending on your application.
• Subjects: “The University of Cambridge does not require applicants for Law to take any specific A Level subjects.”
• Recommended options: While not mandatory, many applicants study core analytical or essay-based subjects such as History, English Literature, Languages, or Mathematics. Other acceptable choices include Economics, Geography, Politics, and Sciences.
• Additional Tests: All applicants must register for and take the National Admissions Test for Law (LNAT). Some individual colleges may also request written work samples.

Thank you for your detailed answer! It is very frustrating that it's both the Englishs he got 7s in. I feel any other subject wouldn't have an impact! Also frustrating that 7s ARE excellent grades.

He has looked at the subject specific requirements for Law and it says:

"Most [law students] had usually studied at least one of:

English (language or literature)
History
Languages (ancient or modern)
Economics
Law
Mathematics
Psychology
A science subject

Other common subjects included:

Classical Civilisation, Further Mathematics, Geography, Politics, Music, Philosophy, Religious Studies or Sociology."

Yes, it is Classical Civilization! I was being lazy in my typing. Hopefully that will be ok as A Levels. He doesn't want to do history as the options available to him are all 20th Century and he prefers the old stuff. He's really good at Spanish, but doesn't fancy that as an A Level either.

@Snugs10Thank you for your replies and your help.

The guidance that I linked to comes from the uni itself and is general rather than subject specific. The subject-specific guidance from the uni website chimes in with that to some extent – and the A level guidance is not saying "you will only get in if you take these subjects" for sure.

I guess if the uni recommends specific subjects, taking those subjects may maximise your chances. That's not to say though that anyone taking politics instead of history, or class civ instead of Latin, won't get in.

Plus he needs to take A levels he will enjoy and excel in. No use taking history and getting a B if he wants to go to Cambs; better for sure to take politics and get an A-star. At the end of the day it is his decision and he needs to weigh it all up. All you can do is present him with the information. All the best to him.

Hi, I have a daughter in yr12 applying for cambs law imminently. I’ve noticed from yesterday a lot of unexpected lower English grades at GCSE. She had the same for Lit last year. A 7 but lower than expected. Just short of a 8. Remarked, got a 9. Not the only one in her year! Might be an idea.

@claryThank you. He has seen the suggested subjects, but really wants to do Classics and Politics. I agree it's a slight gamble, but they are what he wants to do.

I'm not obsessed by Cambridge myself, and think he'd thrive at Durham, Bristol etc if he doesn't manage Cambridge so I personally would rather he did what he enjoyed.

@Yellowrosesarethebest He's asking his English teacher if he can get the papers back to look at...

I'm a Law Professor at Cambridge and can confirm that the information in @Snugs10 posts is a good summary of the relevance of GCSEs for our admission processes. (NC for this)

There are lots of paths for becoming an excellent lawyer. Studying law at Cambridge is certainly one of them, but don't worry if that doesn't pan out. Make the most of other opportunities.

Regarding A level choices -- all assessments in the Cambridge Law course are essay-based, so it's sensible to take some essay-based subjects at A-level. That said, the logic within STEM subjects trains students to systematise their reasoning. So my personal view is that a mix of essay- and STEM-based subjects at A-level is equally good preparation as a full suite of essay-based subjects.

Most importantly, aspiring Law students should use their school years to become really good at : (1) reading quickly; (2) identifying and critiquing reasoning, and (3) writing tightly reasoned, argument-based essays fairly quickly. Those skills matter far more than having studied any particular A-level subject.

Just to add it’s important to get a decent LNAT score and apply for at least 1 or 2 none LNAT. Cambridge, Bristol and Durham you mention are all LNAT so if gets low score they are all out of running even if all Astar predicted. LNAT result is after application deadline. Warwick and Nottingham are popular none LNAT choices.

Competition is brutal for getting a place in any of the LNAT universities. Dd did Maths, biology, History and English - was predicted all A stars and achieved it. Cambridge interviewed her and rejected her citing that there are too many qualified candidates.
Make sure that he chooses his A levels properly.

Competition is strong, but our students don't routinely achieve 4 A* at A level.

If students interview well, but aren't selected by their first choice college there's still a route where students can be selected or re-interviewed by another college.

I'd say all of our students are clever and deserving, but not all of the cleverest and most deserving applicants end up with us.

My point was that a lot of bright students don’t get in, there are not enough places for everyone.Make sure that you are not disadvantaged by your A level subject choice. You don’t need 4 A level subjects, sorry my post was not clear.

@LawDegree He should read the A level guide that Cambridge produce. I’d say his A levels are not what they are looking for for law. @claryhas flagged what they say and I’ve banged on about it for years! (With a huge amount of push back on MN). Its the best advice because Cambridge say clearly what the want for Law.

Oxford clearly state they take GCSEs into account. As do Bristol.

@Snugs10 The guidance linked to by the other poster clearly says they recommend 2 of the listed subjects for Law. Not doing 2 is not a great idea and the list for a third subject is long. So no issue there.

Therefore he really should change to History if a language is not on his radar. Then choose a third - classical civ or politics is fine.

Yeh I agree with @MeetMeOnTheCorner (for a change! haha sorry, we are arguing in a pleasant way on another thread). He may as well (surely) maximise his chances by taking the A levels advised, if he really wants to go to Cambs.

If he would rather take politics and class civ than history or Eng lit or Spanish, that's fine ofc and may be a better outcome (eg higher grades) but hr needs to realise that he may be making Cambs less likely. There are lots of other great unis to study for sure and I am sure he will get unto one of those. Cambs is a big gamble anyway as in the majority of applicants do not get an offer.

@clary I would like to say we are discussing in a mature way!

LNAT unis all have very strong students who are redirected from Oxbridge. I still think 2 from the Cambridge list makes dc a better candidate anywhere plus a good LNAT score of course.

Hmm history is a much stronger subject academically than class civ. a lot of very academic schools don’t even offer class civ. obviously as pointed out above it won’t stop you, but it’s definitely a weaker subject

@CambridgedonnaThank you for responding and confirming @Snugs10summary. It's a shame A-levels have to be so limited. He would love to continue to do all his GCSE subjects plus more as he just loves learning. As it is, he'll stick to the two essay subjects, maths and an EPQ (He knows that won't help anything, but I think he just wants to do it for fun!). Sadly he can't take FM because of timetabling. I will pass on your words of wisdom from your last paragraph - good tips! He has been doing the Cambridge Law summer course (not sure what it's actually called) and is talking very passionately about it! He'd love Cambridge, but will do well wherever due to who he is.

@MoreholidaysthanjudithchalmersAh yes! He knows about LNAT and I think he said something about making sure he applied to a range. And Warwick is definitely on this list - his brother is there having a great time!

@ProfessorLayton1I'm sorry about your DD - hopefully she's happily pursuing her dream elsewhere?

@MeetMeOnTheCorner @clary, @croisette- I admit that him not going for the more normal English, History, Maths route is a slight concern. But he's passionate about his Classics and Politics so that's probably a better idea than doing Modern history he's not so interested in, English or Spanish. Even if it affects his Cambridge chances. Cambridge don't say you have to have done those subjects so hopefully they mean it. He has read all the guidance (as have I, I think). I will re-read the link though!

Is Classical Civilization really a lesser subject? I haven't ever studied it and it seems really hard to me! From what I understand, it's a mixture of Literature and History? DS certainly had a lot to say (negatively) about the Odessy film!

PS. I really appreciate all your comments though, they are very thought provoking!

It's not so much that class civ is a lesser subject. It's a less common subject for sure as not many settings offer it. It's rigorous enough though. Just not on Cambridge's (very short) list of A levels it recommends you take two of for a hums degree.

It's not about "normal" subjects, it's about maximising chances. I am sure people get offers from Cambs for hums degrees who have not studied two on that list. But if you know about the list and a place at Cambs is what you want, you might need to weigh up two years studying an A level in something you don't love as much + a Cambs offer vs two years studying the A level subject you do love + no Cambs offer.

In any case as noted a Cambs offer is not guaranteed – if you didn't get one you might feel especially aggrieved that you had chosen history over class civ.

I think there is an argument for a subject you will do better in vs a higher-ranked one you will not do well in (in fact I made it haha) but in this case I think that's weak tbh. We're not talking about my DS2 deciding between Eng lit (probs a poor C at A level) and biology (an A/Astar). Someone who can gain an A star in class civ can I would expect get one in history or Eng lit – the skills are very similar; especially if they are as bright as your DS clearly is.

@LawDegree- she is off to LSE, really happy about going to London as that’s what she wanted. I had a lot of good advice on MN as her school was not very helpful. I had been through medical application process years ago and thought that was difficult but competition to get into Law at certain universities is
brutal. Good luck to your son.