Location vs course?

[Suffolker]

Do you think the course, or the institution/location is more important?

Dd is being very proactive looking at courses and universities and has drawn up a preliminary shortlist. We’re planning a few open days in the summer. She wants to apply for geography so we’ve been looking at various (contradictory!) league tables. She really likes the sound of York and it seems like a city that would suit her well (she’s not a big party person). I know it has a good reputation as an institution, but the geography department doesn’t seem to rate very highly in any of the surveys.

So does the reputation of the institution trump the courses?? I know there’s no straightforward answer to this conundrum but I’d be interested to hear any opinions.

It’s very difficult but I would err towards the course being the most important. Although it depends on whether the location is OK-ish, or very different from what they want.

So does the reputation of the institution trump the courses??

This is a different question from what I understood by your title question.

From your title, I was going to say that your dc being happy where they are is incredibly important.
Most of that will come from 'the vibe' when they look round various universities.
Some prefer a campus, some prefer a more spread across a City Uni, some like places with a campus within a city.
Some like to be able to get home within 2 hours. For others it is important they are near the sea or mountains or a thriving City.
For some, the cost of living is really important. For other it might be a sport they are really in to or the opportunity to find somewhere to play their instrument even if they aren't studying music.

But, if you are looking at the reputation, I think you need to look at the course itself.

Course definitely

Although it does also depend on whether they're looking at working directly in the field after or if they want a career where any degree will do.

I agree my question was a bit contradictory. I suppose there are three factors to consider: the course, the institution (reputation and general vibe) and the location.

Using my example, I suppose that means York is probably 2 out of the 3. But perhaps the course trumps both of those?

i think it’s also important to look at modules and see what is of interest- eg with Geography is it more Human, other etc.
i just had a quick look at the Complete University Guide League Tables for Geography and York for example is 19th. There is only 1 -2 percent between the top 10-20 so it’s all much of a muchness at that level. Slightly lower in the Times table but again there’s nothing really in it. Lots all
scoring very similar.
She should go and visit a few and see how she feels about the place, the course etc and it may all become clearer!

I would agree - the modules of the course should be looked at, not just reputation. Although remember they can change (especially 3rd year) with staffing changes.
Also visit is crucial as somewhere that looks great on paper may just “feel” wrong - my own daughter hated Warwick from the moment she stepped on Campus.
Also if going into “research” going to the best place for 1st degree may not matter as much as getting a good degree. I’ve known people ended up at Oxbridge having previously been at somewhere way down the league tables (50 or 100th).
And for the “any degree” jobs University reputation overall is far more important.

It is tricky but it depends what is important to you/DC, some people use the Russell list, some people look at course structure (especially if they dislike exams/coursework/group projects), or the list of student satisfaction/job prospects etc…for mine - one wanted to play a specific sport so applied to unis within BUCS Division 1, the other wants to be closer to home so has said 90 minutes max…
More important I would say is going and actually looking around the campus, spend some time, meet some students, view halls, experience a taster lecture, unis have pretty specific ‘feels’ and you want child to fit in and feel comfortable.

Tbh there is no correct answer to this, as you’ve already explained in your OP.

Most people will score/rank all three before reaching a conclusion and no one factor will trump the others? So my DD chose her top 5 unis by looking at course rankings, course modules, uni reputations/ranking AND location (vibe, cost, student societies, distance from home). Because she had weighted the last of those when selecting, so when the offers came through it was about modules and course rankings when deciding her firm and insurance choices.

York isn't really known for geography. In fact, when I went there, a few moons ago, it didn't offer geography at all. So, it may not ever have become a 'geography' uni. And, despite what some might avouch, the course does matter to a degree. Has she looked at the stats on Discover Uni?

However, York itself has a fabulous reputation, is in the MN coveted Russell Group and is a great place to live.

I guess some places well known for geography might not be as nice as York. And lifestyle does matter.
That said, all the places I can think of that have geography reputations are in great locations.

From what I can gather, I think they may have previously done environmental studies/science at York which has morphed into geography/environment (not a huge leap I suppose?). Can I ask where else you would suggest for geography? So far DD’s shortlist is:
Sheffield
Edinburgh
Lanacaster
Birmingham (but she’s not sold on the city)
Royal Holloway
Keele

Didn't do environmental science even in my day the Stone Ages

I am a teacher (not of Geography) and have supported lots of students through UCAS. The bright geographers tend to look at:

Durham
Lancaster
Southampton
Exeter
Aberystwyth
Birmingham
Sheffield

Of those, three girls I had in my form last year all chose between Sheffield, Southampton and Lancaster having not been lured by the others (or not being quite good enough for Durham). They did research human vs physical and various specialisms.

To add- my DS is at Birmingham. It's a beautiful campus and an excellent university.

Thank you @Piggywaspushed that’sa useful list. She’s adamant she doesn’t even want to look at Durham due to its reputation for being very independent school dominated. But then Edinburgh is too (speaking as an Edinburgh graduate!).

I also think she might be pleasantly surprised by the Birmingham location!

Oh goodness, yes, very much so! And also very well heeled Americans.

People will jump down your throat for uttering the thought but it is definitely true that Edinburgh can be a rarefied atmosphere.

Re Durham. I do know 5 students who have dropped out of uni - via my own friends and their offspring and DS's friends. 4 of them dropped out of Durham. But this is an extremely small sample of slightly strange people!

Birmingham often wins hearts and minds after a visit.

This is so true (and I am not at B’ham)

No to the question in your post. You need to look at subject rank not just the uni. My DD was considering doing animation and University of Hertfordshire is top for that (I’m sure some might disagree but it is). The University is fairly middling overall. At one point she was looking at Edinburgh for it too - obviously the uni has a great rep but not for Animation! A choice between them and UofH would have been the no brainer. People in the industry would know the difference.
She is now at Durham which ranks highly not only as a uni but also for her course (Sociology), and, crucially, it was a place she could see herself studying/living for three years.

I studied and work at Birmingham University so was there for a few years. I absolutely loved it but it was 30 years ago and apparently Mr Egg has closed down in the city centre which means the city centre is now bereft from their bizzare egg menu, very sad.

York is one of the institutions in the worst financial circumstance currently, I mean all Universities are having a very hard time, but just a heads up. DH just took severance from one last year and his course was just outside of top 5 in the UK, my old workplace is shedding staff by the bucketload and it’s an RG University as so beloved by MN.

York ranks #19 out of 73 for Geography. That's top 20.
so I don't know what you mean when you say the course doesn't rank, that's quite ridiculous.

York is an excellent university, a safe and lovely place to live and study and the course is in the top 20.

This is a non-starter.

Am guessing you mean no brainer!

I think it’s fair to say that it ranks very differently depending on which survey you look at.

Out of interest which surveys are you looking at? If it’s the Guardian I’d take it with a pinch of salt!

I’ve looked at the Times, Guardian and complete university guide. Plus the student satisfaction survey.

I think the Complete University Guide is the best one really.

What employers think about Geographers is a wholly different matter. Teaching it - they won’t care. Going into (eg) finance - get through the selection tests employers set up. Your skills and attributes matter more than what is studied and where. Many employers won’t look. If dc wants to work in a geography field via a masters, then choice of masters probably matters more. Geography is a very broad subject so I’d look at employable modules and not ones where there’s over supply (environmental science).

Lastly I do wonder about Keele on the list. Middle of nowhere and Royal Holloway is a bit empty at weekends. I’d add in Leeds and Nottingham.