Uni and subject choices for DS, starting Y12 in September. How soon?

[needastrongone]

DS1 is my first child, you may be able to tell, as this in new territory for me. I have professional qualifications, equivalent to degree, but haven't been to Uni so the process is unfamiliar.

DS is hoping (expecting, really) to do well at GCSE level. His wish so far is to go to an academic university, RG type.

His A Level choices are Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry, so you can see where his interests lie, although he's a solid overall performer and I would anticipate he will gain high grades in all subjects.

We are fully aware 3 subjects only count for UCAS, but, DS is a stubborn person and is unlikely to drop any A Level. He also performs very well in exams, prefers them really, and they do not stress him or cause him tension (DD is another matter....).

Given that he wishes to have a shot at gaining entry at Uni where the competition for places is high, I am wondering if he may need to start thinking already with regard to subjects.

My overall feeling is to let him settle into A Levels and see how the subjects differ, where his enjoyment then takes him, then review, but is this enough of a plan? I am aware that, as a parent, I am not very pushy. I leave him to it in the main but support his thoughts and chat when required. It's up to him at the end of the day.

For info, he very much enjoys astro physics and maths is intrinsic in his soul

TIA.

Well, I AM glad I posted now, as this has been extremely useful, thank you.

The 'prospectus in the loo' theory is one I use for DH with regularity...

We have suggested to DS that a degree in Physics or indeed Maths would give him options in areas such as banking/finance/actuarial type areas, in addition to stereotypical paths. Really interesting though that your DS then went on to study Economics and Politics, given the subject choices Gin.

Good then, that he intends to (hopefully) study 4 A Levels, if some do not count both maths and FM. I will admit that I had assumed the opposite re choices, i.e that some courses would insist on FM in addition to maths.

At present, there are enough applicants for FM to be run as a separate subject at A Level, rather than combining it with maths, I will see how that pans out, seems an inordinate amount of time studying maths to me per week! He's been lucky to have a strong cohort so far in his school career re maths, the teachers have used this well.

Yes, there's a lot of things that will change in the following year, and no rush.

You have to really love maths to study maths/FM/physics. If you do, it's a-level heaven.

If some do not count both maths and FM.

Apart from medicine, I don't know of any who don't count maths and FM.

The very top STEM courses will often expect four A levels to be offered, but even then the offers are often made based only on three specific subjects.

banking/finance/actuarial type areas

These are the stereotypical paths for those with maths degrees.

Consider Engineering as the degree that opens all doors.

There is a belief (amongst engineers) that they are scientists who can communicate, as well as knowing how many pennies are in a pound.

My degree is in Chemical Engineering and I thing that this is a very useful and transferable degree.

Engineering positively responds to students with Maths and Further Maths - really helps in first year of degree when so much is new.

Op - I think you mentioned earlier you thought a university with halls available for all 3 years would be ideal. It is not possible I think you will find. Some offer year 1 and 3 but the majority offer year 1 only. I do think you will find your DS is a very different individual at university and sharing a house with friends will be something that he wants to do. Staying in halls for y2 is a bit 'Billy No Mates'.

I
do think you will find your DS is a very different individual at university and sharing a house with friends will be something that he wants to do.

Agreed. They change massively at university-it's amazing what a bit of independence can do.

I did exactly those A levels and I am now an engineer. I think once he is settled into Y12, it is not too early for your DS to start sussing out where he might be. Science is not all about laboratories. Engineering is not all about spanners and dirty boots - it can be extremely exacting and theoretical. Don't be ill-informed and miss out on great opportunities. He could go in a lot of directions from quite theoretical maths and physics to all kinds of research to all kinds of engineering to economics related fields.

Friends I had at university doing maths - I couldn't even understand what they were studying but they went on to some really interesting jobs like Office of National Statistics and operational research. OTOH I went to an open day at DAMTP (Dept of Applied Maths and Theoretical physics) at Cambridge and it was all impressive but not for me.

The more he looks into it - try and visit friends, university departments, work experience, Big Bang fairs, the more he is likely to see which sort of field/courses he might be interested in. Does he read New scientist or anything like that?

TBH I don't think there are any wrong choices except aiming too low! Somebody will be falling over themselves to employ him in six years time.

I don't think any courses insist on FM for the simple reason that not all sixth forms offer it. But for eng and physics it's definitely highly desirable alongside physics and maths. My DD is a year older than your DS and is doing those as she's going to do elec eng - did comp sci to AS but dropping it to focus on getting the grades necessary for some of the best places and self teach an extra mechanics module ... One of those for whom 2xmaths isn't quite enough . I guess she was lucky that her school was still putting them in for AS but even if not, heck, sometimes we forget that the point of education is to learn not just to get bits of paper! Anyway, starting 4 or 5 subjects and then either dropping one or not before A2 is entirely normal procedure.

Thanks again.

I'm in a different time zone at present, hence the strange times of postings.

I talked to DS today with reference to the amount of maths that he will be studying from September. He looked at me incredulously, like he couldn't envisage anything other than 12 hours plus of maths based studying per week. I wish that I could describe more articulately his reaction, but safe to say he's fine with this amount of study in this area.

Yep, probably naive to think he won't change considerably. My youngest, I can already see house sharing and embracing independence, DS is far more routine and structure, everything in it's place, safe etc.

We subscribe to New Scientist and Private Eye, satire and science....

That's a really positive post RaisingSteam, thanks. I think he/we do need to plant a few seeds of thought at this stage, or at least after a term or two to settle in, such a myriad of possibility. Lucky kid.

Errol Fair play to your DD for self teaching an extra module with a heavy work load. As I recall, maths and FM will still be AS, Physics and Chem are linear. I may be wrong!

I think that you are doing the right thing OP. Many pupils wait until the beginning of Y13, when they are filling in their UCAS form, to think about this and then find that they cannot apply to courses because they took the wrong A Levels or don't have relevant work experience. Taking a few moments to consider "is this two year course I'm undertaking going to be a good preparation for the next step?" is an excellent idea.
Lots of things can change in the meantime ("life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans") but a bit of forward planning never goes amiss.

My kids were encouraged by their schools to think about degree subjects in S5 (in Scotland, old lower 6th in England) Leaving it until their last year is too late. Decide on the subject first as you then need to decide on universities and do open days etc. My kids both changed their mind a few times whilst looking though. The internet is a great thing for making this easy. Resources like unistats tell you which unis do which degrees.

Keep the four subjects, and an open mind as to whether he takes all four to A2. He may drop one after AS.

For next summer, Smallpeice or Headstart courses to help him decide the best STEM subjects for him. Bookings open in the autumn and for the more popular courses you need to act fast!

Best of luck to you and to him

Headstart/smallpeice courses also help decide which branch of engineering (or indeed whether general engineering) you are most suited to.

Keep the four subjects, and an open mind as to whether he takes all four to A2. He may drop one after AS.
This advice is out of date as the only modular facilitating subject will be Maths for new Y12s. You are correct that Chemistry and Physics are now linear. This makes a difference in that the final grades for these 2 subjects will be totally exam based and practical work is assessed only by the teacher and graded separately. There will be some questions on practical work on the exam papers though. This may work in his favour if he is better at exams than coursework.
This combination of A level subjects shouldn't limit his degree options at all imo - it's a very good combination for lots of degrees. It's possible he could change his mind on GCSE results day though, so although some planning is a good idea, I wouldn't do too much!
If Maths is his main interest, would also suggest looking at Engineering Maths as well as more traditional Maths courses. At some point in Y12, it may become obvious which part of Maths is his strength.
The sixth form or college will also help with uni applications and events local to you as well.

If Maths is his main interest, would also suggest looking at Engineering Maths as well as more traditional Maths courses.

Why? Does anybody apart from Bristol do Engineering Maths?

Pretty much everybody else does "engineering maths" as part of "applied maths" i.e. you can specialise into applied maths quite early in your maths degree, and be taught mathematical modelling relevant for engineering and other sciences. Not sure what doors "Engineering Maths" would open that a maths degree centred around applied maths wouldn't, particularly when the latter is from a strong engineering university in which many of the applied maths courses will have an engineering focus.