Anyone's dc study medicine outside of UK?

[Berthatydfil]

DC got bbbb (bio, chem, phys, maths) in As last year (lazy but bright and didn't work hard enough).
School wouldn't support applying to do medicine. Applied for bio sci type courses but really wanted to get 3 As and apply in 2016 for medicine.
DC has worked much harder this year and has got high As in biol and chem but missed an A in maths by 3 Ums. Plan now is to resist maths and possibly chem as he was only 5 Ums off an A star.
He has been messaged by UCAS to say that there are vacancies for medicine in European countries for sept 2015 in English.
It's not really anything we had considered up til now so don't know anything about financing (- we earn too much to get a grant so was going to get his loans with us topping it up as necessary), or anything else about studying out if the UK for that matter.
Any info would be appreciated.

I don't know anything about it. But I think it could be a fantastic opportunity. Taught in English, but chance to be completely immersed in another culture as well. Where are the places?

it would depend which European country to be honest.
For example Polish universities' medical programs in English are in fact lower standard than courses in Polish.
Which countries have been mentioned?

although there may be places where he will be taught in English the patients generally won't speak English, so he would benefit from learning the local language.

Malta is one place that teaches in English (and where many patients would speak some English) but their medical school required a language at AS level when we looked (English was acceptable).

You will find better information on the Student Room website including warnings about companies that try to sell you "helpful" services.

Accommodation and fee costs can be lower, loans may be available within the uk but I dont think they are for elsewhere.

There are a limited number of UK medical schools that accept resits and they usually want an A* in the resit subject.

There are a few bio type courses that allow a few people to transfer to medicine after a year.

Your best bet would be to check out the forums on The Student Room website.

There are previous posts on MN about this, but agree that TSR is a better resource.

There seem to be a lot of fairly new courses in places like Romania and Bulgaria, where it might be worth examining closely the caliber of fellow students and where they come from. (For example I understand plenty of Germans are interested in studying abroad).

Other courses including in Hungary and Poland are longer established. Ireland is popular but if anything entry requirements are higher than in UK, whilst Malta requires a language at AS.

Have you looked at Buckingham? Less access to loans but the course is shorter (4 terms a year) and if you apply now you can start in Jan.

From what I understand you are usually taught in English for the first couple of years but then need to have picked up sufficient Bulgarian/Romanian whatever to treat patients. Two years immersion in a country should allow you to do this.

You would have to be crazy to send your not very hard working DC to read medicine abroad in an unknown context/culture/language.

I'd get the maths script back & see if it was worth getting it remarked. If it went up to an A then your dc could apply here for next year.

There are some biomed type courses that allow the top few students in the year to apply to transfer to their medicine course. Extremely competitive, but was on my list of possible back up plans if DS didn't get his grades.

I know a GP who studied medicine in Holland in English, might be worth looking at, they all seem to speak very good English over there.

people do change and sometimes lazy boys find their motivation a little late. When we looked at Holland as a back up medicine was not suitable - I think it was one of the courses where they dont teach in English, but these things change.

If he isn't now well motivated then you could find him failing his exams part way through the course. It's a tough course and not one for lazy students.

Bertha, all is not lost with those grades that your DC got. But if he can convert his bbbb AS grades into BBB or ABC at A-level (Chemistry, Biology and Maths/Physics) there is another way to enter medical school i.e. outside of the UK and still eventually qualifying as a doctor in a British medical school.

But it is very expensive for a typical average British family to do that; but on the other hand, it is no more expensive than (say) sending a child to a top British boarding school e.g. Eton, Harrow or Winchester for five years.

I am talking about the [[www.imu.edu.my/imu/images/stories/download/Int.StudentGuide.pdf
International Medical University (IMU)]] in Malaysia. This is a highly regarded English-language private medical university in Kuala Lumpur and is a partner to many of the world’s top medical schools including those from the United Kingdom. Malaysia is a Commonwealth country and therefore, a large proportion of the populace speak English. Your child could start his first few years at IMU Malaysia and finish his later stage studies in a partner medical school. I have a personal friend whose son did exactly that eventually finishing his medical degree at Liverpool University (UK) and therefore obtaining a medical qualification from Liverpool. He is now working happily as a doctor in Australia.

I'm really sorry coffeemaker on but that is simply not true, i studied in Poland and this was a rumour which circulated by the Polish Division firstly due to the fact that English division do very poorly in the Polish national exam (lek) an exam which is NOT needed for applying to the foundation programme in the UK. The reason why they did so badly is because there are no materials in English, so you study blind. Secondly, our exams were an exact translation on the Polish divisions and we always sat exams together so no information was shared. Polish students are often a little bit jealous and peed off that Scandinavian students arrive which huge loans while in Poland people really struggle. When you apply to the foundation programme you are just a number, nobody even knows which university you attended. The programme is different than at home, it's more intense with a bigger focus on theory than practical and bedside manner/communication. As for finance, it's not possible to get a student loan, students must self fund or some parents took personal loans or loans with guarantors. All in all with living an fees it's much cheaper anyway and some students work in the local English schools earning £20/lesson.

Um rebs, this is from two years ago- I doubt coffeemaker is checking it now.

Um rebs, this is from two years ago- I doubt coffeemaker is checking it now.

Sure, but a friends daughter is applying and she asked me to shed some light on it so i decided to comment back.

Well, in that case, I would refer her to Bobo's sage advice...

Try Medical Sciences as University of South Wales as that course is a feeder for Medical school.... but it is competitive.

Excuse me? Why would she be crazy? I fully endorse it, plus by paying your own way through university they lefties can't complain when she decides to have a family and become a part-time GP. Her daughter worked hard, English is her second language and she just missed to grade. British people are so closed minded in terms of education, studying with people from all over the world, not one Brit, however they have a really negative attitude to Education outside the UK. Bonkers.

So her daughter is not lazy, and in a different situation?
Bobo's sentiment was that sending a lazy child anywhere to study that you cannot keep tabs on them is wasting your money, and I agree.
If the child is paying it themselves, that's a slightly different call and indeed my parents had no input into where I chose to study or the courses I took.
It's nothing to do with studying abroad- bobo isn't even in the UK! My children will go anywhere in the world to study, wherever the best course is. They are very far from lazy though!

I think Rebs' post is useful. The UK is very different to France where Bobo lives. In France it is relatively easy to get a place at medical school. In the UK, we do not train enough doctors, which means both that good students don't gain places, and that a good proportion of the NHS is staffed by people not trained in the UK.

It is therefore not too big a leap for a motivated student to consider training abroad in order to qualify for a job in the NHS. It would also be supreme arrogance to suggest that medical training overseas is always going to be weaker than in the UK. Indeed entry requirements in places like Ireland are even tougher than those in the UK.

However you need to be careful. Some courses will be as good if not better. Others will not. I was quite shocked to read of kids on The Student Room gaining places at new medical schools with really low A level results, but relieved to see others needing good grades and a successful interview. Luckily DD got a place in the UK, but if we had looked overseas I would have wanted to know more about failure rates, which in some countries including France, can be very high, and more about employment prospects.

PhiloDox, Apologies, I jumped on the defence rather quickly, as I have heard it before. Despite our NHS being full of wonderful doctors and nurses trained on the continent and further afield.

Needmoresleep. Yes, it's true. There may be some medical schools doing so, particularly in the new EU countries, however you must attend a medical school approved by the GMC in order to come back. I think the UK should do as Scandinavia do, students can take a loan to study abroad, but on the understanding that if they don't come back or they fail they must pay back 100% otherwise they pay 40% back. The UK could train doctors on the cheap and get them back and thought the foundation programme. Congratulations and best of luck to DD ;)

The French system is totally different. Getting into a course is rarely the issue, it's coming out of it with a diploma that is. Indeed, 85% of those accepted in Medicine in the first year will not make it after the end of Year 1 exam.

I personally find this system much worse as you get a taste of what it would be like, but having to learn whilst having the constant reminder that you are unlikely to be able to continue to do so.

It's not so much about failure rates, it's about the fact that the selective process in France takes place at a different stage.