5 Uni choices - how many insurance/aspirational etc?

[stonecircle]

Much has changed since I went to uni in the Dark Ages and I can't remember what DS's Head of Sixth form said to me last term about how to decide which universities to apply to.

DS wants to do a Geography degree and will be doing A2s next year in Geography, Biology and Eng Lit. For AS he got A in Geog (a low A - we've got one paper back to see if worth going for a remark); A in Eng Lit (a very high A) and B in Biology (a low B - again we're considering a remark in one paper which he thought had gone very well but he got a C in it).

So AAB for AS - I guess his teachers will predict the same for A2?

He's interested in places like Cardiff, Southampton, Loughborough, Leicester and possibly Exeter which all give AAB-ABB as typical offers. He's also keen on Brighton which is BBB so I guess that would be a mid range option?

Any suggestions how he should weight it? Three AAB-ABB; Brighton with hopefully BBB and then one with points? But then, if he got offers from Brighton and the one with points, how would he know which one to hang onto as an insurance?

ANY advice would be very welcome!

There's a good detailed thread on this started last week. Have a look at that first -- lots of good advice.

There were a lot of good courses in clearing this year and adjustment is a new thing. Based on my experience with DS1, with DS2 I will be suggesting one fairly aspirational, two high but achievable choices and two insurances that he would be very happy to go to.
When it comes to making the final 2 decisions you will know more, but I would go with one from group 2 and one from group 3. If he does wildly better than his offer he can look at adjustment with no risk.

Upthechimney - do you mean the one started by Mumslife? If so, I didn't want to hijack that thread as it is all about her dd. I was also a bit surprised at the suggestion that BBB should be an insurance. I'd imagined that, unless you were predicted High A/A*s an insurance would need to be a bit lower than that?

Useful to bear adjustment in mind secretsquirrels.

Is there much lower though to study Geography? I would have thought BBB was about as low as you could go for a decent degree in a Geography. We always thought 2 Aspirational, 2 Really a Good Chance and 1 Insurance. I would have a look in clearing to see what Geography courses were available this year and see if one of them would be OK for insurance. Exeter would be top of your list for me and Brighton is the only ex Poly so that is the type of Uni you need to look at for Insurance. However, visiting will give you all a much better idea if what to put. The one you hang onto for insurance is the one he really would be happy going to.....

MillyMolly - I was just worried that he should give himself more wiggle room in case one subject didn't go well and he ended up with something lower than a B. But he hasn't identified more than a couple of places that he's interested in which would ask for points and I'm not sure he's that keen on one of them having been for a nose round last week.

For the last year he's been saying he wants to do environmental science but last week suddenly switched to geography. He wasn't really that keen on Exeter because env science is taught on the campus at Falmouth which didn't appeal to him. But from what I can see geography is taught in Exeter itself so that may appeal more.

I'm just hoping that, when he rolls in from Reading Festival tomorrow afternoon he has some energy left to start thinking about it all more seriously!

I think you need to see what the advice is regarding remarks when you get the papers back before you can make any real decisions. If the AS grades stay at low A, high A, low B then the universities to consider may be quite different to those you'd consider if you got remarks which resulted in high/mid A, high A, high B/low A for example. I think the most important thing to remember is that there is really only any point in applying for universities where you'd actually be happy to go to. There's no point putting a uni with a low offer as an insurance if you don't actually like it and wouldn't want to go there. Clearing is there as an option if you miss offers from your favoured universities, and some good universities give some lower offers in clearing, so sometimes that is a better option than a university you're not that happy with as your insurance just because they are giving a low offer. But I really think you need to wait for the papers back and a decision regarding remarks, and then obviously possibly the wait for remarks.

Also you need to discuss what grades his school will predict for A levels. If they think he may work harder, they may be prepared to be more optimistic in their prediction, while obviously balancing this with a dose of realism. It would be feasible for them to predict A*,A,A, or AAA which would change the unis he could apply to.

Also I agree with the previous post. He must be happy to go to any of the 5 unis he selects. While this should be obvious, many choose a 5th that turns into their insurance offer and when it comes down to it, they really don't want to go there. Don't waste any of the 5 choices.

Quite a lot of DDs friends did not go to their insurance choices. They did a gap year and applied again. Exeter does Geography, so he would avoid Falmouth. I agree that you need to get the situation sorted re results, but I would do a thorough trawl to see where offers Geography that he would like to go to. Nearly every university in every city will offer geography, but it can be BA or BSc. BSc with an environmental option might be worth looking for. The points ones tend to be the less prestigious ones and if he is not keen, it might be a good push to work hard. The points ones can ask for specific grades for one subject though (eg geography). Also he only needs one insurance so just one suitable lower offer place is enough but he should be happy to go there.

Don't expect much after Reading by the way. They don't sleep, don't wash and barely eat! They have worried themselves to death because of rumours about tents being burnt and have had stuff stolen! (Or was that just my DD?) They are horrible when they come back!

Look at UWE at Bristol, Manchester Met, Portsmouth, Brighton and Oxford Brooks. There is a chance they are points, ( I have not checked) but they are good cities for students.

So AAB for AS - I guess his teachers will predict the same for A2?

One thing to remember is that the funding/government-imposed cap on UG numbers is off for any students entering with ABB minimum grades.

So theoretically, universities can admit as many students as they like with ABB or better A2 results.

However, as funding lags behind the student to flow through to the actual teaching departments, the real constraints under which universities operate are current staffing & teaching space. Hence the competition for the courses perceived as the "best."

So AAB gives him a lot of wiggle room. But please, please, go to some Open Days: don't make judgements on the grades only. It's 3 intensive years. And while Geography has a core of fairly straightforward stuff which will be common across most degree courses at most universities, there will be differences and specialisations. Your DS needs to want to do specific courses in specific universities.

Upthechimney - cap on student numbers lower than ABB is removed from 15/16 entry, so no limits other than those imposed by the institutions themselves.

From my experience I would say 'insurance' application(s) are only of use if your son would be happy to go... Have had lots if potential medics put pharmacy down as insurance with no intention of ever taking up a pharmacy course.

No matter what 5 choices you DC decide, remember that they can only choice 1 firm and 1 insurance. They need to be realistic in their decisions as clearing does not guarantee a place in course of their choice at a university they would be happy at

Am amazed that anyone would apply as an insurance to somewhere they didn't want to go or for a course they didn't want to do!!

Some helpful advice here - to be drip fed to DS over the next week! I'm hoping he will start thinking in depth this week about the type of course he wants and book himself on some more open days.

They need to be realistic in their decisions

Nah, not necessarily. If they mess up then it's not the end of the world. They can always re-apply the following year, this time with their realistic head on.

Of course they need to be realistic! I see it at work and on MN parents/students pleading for high predictions to get offers, students putting high offers/same offers for insurance and then their world falls apart when it doesn't happen. Why waste a year because you weren't realistic - there is always adjustment if they have done better than expected.

your DC and parents need to understand their abilities and plan accordingly

Whilst I agree you need to be realistic, I still think it might be worth being a little aspirational, especially if your child is the type who would then work harder.
Adjustment is Ok, but what are the chances that a uni your child likes has a spare place the course they want to do.

Rule of thumb at dc's school is 1 aspirational, 3 on target and 1 below target

The other thing to remember is that while A2 grades are used in part as a filter for numbers for in demand degree programmes, they are also an indication of the level of work/knowledge/ability that we assume for coping with the course.

If we've had a year when we've let some in with "relaxed" grades, we tend to notice much more variation in the end of First Year results.

Why waste a year because you weren't realistic - there is always adjustment if they have done better than expected.

Whether it is a waste of a year depends on the student. If they sit twiddling their thumbs then it is a waste. But if they go travelling, do some volunteering, get relevant work experience or even do some mundane paid work to reduce dependence on SL/Bank of Mum&Dad then that is all good life experience. It's what you make of it.

However, I feel that talking about adjustment is unrealistic; the numbers doing that are very small. I have tried googling for figures - all I can find is mention of low hundreds, not even thousands, of pupils. I wouldn't advise making a life-changing decision in the short timeframe offered by adjustment (or clearing, for that matter). Not to mention the problem of trying to find accommodation at short notice.

I normally try to live by 'do it once and do it right' but for University applications I'd say 'do a degree once but apply as many times as necessary to get the right fit. And who dares wins'.

As a university lecturer, having to deal with UGs, a year out of formal education is never wasted. I think it should be compulsory. Too much PFBs go to university without thinking about why.

Hi Stonecircle - The problem with the insurance choice is that often students have not visited the insurance choice, have not researched the university properly, and schools really force the young person to put something down saying: "you will have nowhere to go". Hence, there is pressure. It is best to resist that and you sound like you will.

Mumslife: Your plan of a variety of courses sounds Ok, but in practice it will be hell to write a personal statement if your DD applies for History and History and Politics, especially at the same university (twice over)!!! They will have her down as not committed to either but hedging her bets. A lot will depend on whether they are recruiting universities or not. I would guess UEA/Royal Holloway are borderline on that. History is usually hard to get into at one of the top ranked universities, and so is History and Politics. I would, however, go for single or joint for all 5 choices (5 separate universities) because she really should know if she wants joint honours or not and this will have to be reflected in her personal statement.