Best A'level choices for Music degree

[circular]

DD just gone into yr11, wants to study music, probably at a University but not ruled out the Conservatoires. More geared to performance/appraising - compositioon weakest area, and no interest there.

Best subjects are Maths and Sciences.
Pretty much decided on Music & Maths for A'levels. Loves the French language - so a possible 3rd subject, although thinks it may be too difficult an A'level for her.
4th subject was going to be RS or a new subject.

Always struggled with English, and a disappointing AQA result may prevent her taking A'level subjects not studied for GCSE (ie RS or Psychology).
Taking Geog GCSE, but not confident of more than a B.
Almost certainly will need to change schools to do above combination, as subject clashes at current school.

How necessary is a 'written' A'level subject for Music?

My friends DD did Maths, Further Maths, Music and French for AS and then dropped down to just Maths and Music for A2 to give her more time to practice her instrument.

webwiz - would that rule out most of the Uni's having just 2 A2's ?

You're best to look at university department websites, even if it seems a bit early at year 11, so she can get an idea about what sort of course she might like best, and and see what subjects they ask for - and what grades; she may be OK with French at a relatively low grade if she's worried about it.

Lots of students go in with no essay-based subjects, eg. maths/sciences + music. Colleges/universities don't seem to mind what they have so long as they have music (Manchester is/was an exception - I am a bit out of date - in that they asked for an essay subject). She'll do some written stuff for Music - criticism, etc., so that will build her writing skills? A language would be fine - useful to have a language anyway and enjoying a subject makes it so much nicer to study even if it's a struggle - and again it keeps her writing up. To be honest, everything is good prep in some way or another.

As far as I know, conservatoires are interested in how you play, and A-levels don't play a great part, it's down to audition.

dd was set on doing music at uni when she went into yr12
she was studying maths/french/music and physics

ended up dropping physics at a2

most universities she looked at were asking for music a grade and atleast BB in the other two subjects ...not sure exactly can't remember

she went to music dept of Leeds . Sheffield, Soton and Cardiff to lok around

ended up changing course entirely though

ds just going to start music at uni - more production and composition though, i would say you def need to start to look at what unis are offering and what they want.
will prob be based on ucas points and grades.
also ds had to audition - took cds - and was given a conditional offer after that.

Why not physics if science is strong for her ? I knew a number of people who did physics with music (joint honours), and there seemed to be a really good synergy

circular she went to the Royal College of Music in London so I think the audition was more important than the A levels.

Thanks all.

Glad to hear DD is not the only one considering Maths & French - her current school seem to think they are an unlikely combination and always have them in the same block. Likewise for Music & Physics. Not sure where they are coming from sometimes.

Her first choice sixth form would allow these 4, but insist on RS as a 5th AS if not choosing the full RS course.

So when the requirements do want a written subject is this generally just English or a Humanity, or do languages count?

I thoguht the Manchester course that required a written subject was the combined Ba/BMus - pretty much for A* students only, so that would be out for DD. But I do recall seeing the requirment somewhere else, but cannot find it now.

"So when the requirements do want a written subject is this generally just English or a Humanity, or do languages count?"

I'd email a few places and find out - it may vary. Admissions people are very helpful, and then you'd have it from the horse's mouth. With Manchester (it was the university course not the joint course with the music college, so may have changed) they wanted a subject like Eng, Hist or RS - one that included essays (tho' of course they're very diff sorts of essays); language A-level syllabuses don't all include essay work, and that's what they seemed to be asking for - older DD certainly did essays for her French A-level but a friend's DCs did not.

That said, requirements are sometimes guidelines, so worth asking. At the Manchester Open Day they said they looked at the complete candidate. DD didn't tick all the boxes for several places she applied but got offers.

FWIW, and please don't take this as gospel, I think Maths, Music, French sounds a smashing combination, & I can think of several young people who have done Maths + Languages + Music. If the bad English result was a blip, maybe the 6th form college would overlook it and allow her to at least try full RS as well (which she wanted to do?). Two years of that kind of subject takes them such a long way, it's easy to get bogged down by worrying about the grade at the end, but the process is important. And that would make for an ace combination. They work so hard for A levels it's nice to do what they want.

Also, does she play piano? (Not everyone doing music has piano as first study, so not so stupid a question as it sounds!)

Yes, need to get her looking at courses to try and get a shortlist of preferences. Then we can contact to clarify requirements. It seems such a long way off though when most GCSE's not sat yet.
It will also come down to what courses cover her first study instrument, as not all do. RNCM appears not to.

Could not see any essay subject requirement for Manchester, although it does state Grade B for Eng Lang GCSE.

Ther Eng lang result was a blip as far as the AQA boundaries go - one UMS off a B, fingers crossed for re-mark. But English is her worst subject, B target, but was hoping for A or B as told CA was an A, but downgraded. If the re-mark gives her a B, probably a waste of time re-sitting in yr11.

Don't think she is overly interested in RS (dropped it at GCSE for Geog) but if she has to write essays can do the argumentative far better than anything creative. Also, think she would opt for it on her first choice external application to avoid 5 As'.

Unfortunately, at her current school, RS and Music are in the same A level option block. She is getting hints that one clash may be acommodated, but if there are two, then it probably was not meant to be.

Sympathique - Yes, she started piano lessons about 18 months ago, as saw several courses asking for anything from basic keyboard skills to Grade 5 if not first study. Enjoying it more than she expected to, and sailed through first 2 grades, so should have no problem getting to at least Grade 5.

Ooh, rare instrument? Exciting - and hopefully sought after by universities/colleges. You sound well sorted, never too soon to ask, colleges/universities must be well used to queries before people choose A level options

PS Manchester have changed then. Was only reason DD kept up an essay subject, desperate to keep up 2nd science, ah well, best not to tell her! Has never forgiven herself for dropping the science. (And in the end she didn't accept them anyway, one can plan to hard...)

definitely maths and physics.
and probably history too.

as high a grade in at least 2 instruments (preferably grade 5, and they prefer an instrument that isn't piano - voice counts as an instrument) and theory.

bit that they think no one wants to do maths and a language - i did maths and German at A-level.

maths and physics because Music is a maths/physics subject - the theory of music is much more mathematical and physical than it is arty.

language would be good, too, because it shows a good basis of understanding different notation.
and a lot of musical terms are based on Italian, at least.

History, because it's a written subject, and requires a lot of research and debate as well as analysis. It's also useful if they do history of music in the degree.

what is her first study instrument?

Haha - First stidy is Recorders
So not sure about rare & sought after. More quirky and inviting prejudices from those that don't understand/appreciate.

Just approached her re history - 'never in a million years' was the response. As expected really. Not taking GCSE and English not quite strong enough.

Wow circular - DD1 also wants to do music with recorders as first study. Does your DD go to NYRO by any chance? DD1 is in Y10 but they do their GCSEs early at her school, so she is facing the same choices as your DD - she has to have decided her A levels (provisionally) by Xmas. She's leaning towards music, history, geography and English.

Wow circular - DD1 also wants to do music with recorders as first study. Does your DD go to NYRO by any chance? DD1 is in Y10 but they do their GCSEs early at her school, so she is facing the same choices as your DD - she has to have decided her A levels (provisionally) by Xmas. She's leaning towards music, history, geography and English.

MordionAgenos - NO. Looked into NYRO but nearest auditions this year were smack in the middle of the early GCSE's. She does her Recorders at a Saturday music school, her 2nd instrument (violin) at school and piano privately.

So if you DD does all/most GCSE's in yr 10, does that mean they start A levels a year early too? How will that work with Uni applications?
She must enjoy writing if those are her likely choices.

"maths and physics because Music is a maths/physics subject - the theory of music is much more mathematical and physical than it is arty."

Theory maybe, but where is the evidence? So, not necessarily. Yes loads of mathmos and scientists and medics are musical but so are loads of Arts students. The reason music depts accept students with a range of subjects and aptitudes is because everything feeds in in different ways - otherwise, to protect their results and rankings, they'd only take maths/science students. They don't and all kinds excel (and vv!).

I suspect the real reason the musical ability of maths/science people is commented on is because of the artificial science/arts divide, and it seems to fly in the face of that. The divide is nonsense: people are people.

PS to above - sorry, I was being knee-jerky. (Too many maths/science-y people giving me a hard time lately, ironically as I'm a closet one myself!). All of nickelc's suggestions and reasons are good. What she says indicates that lots of subjects are useful in different ways, and build useful skills

no, i meant from a purely "how music is made" point of view.

eg, the notes are exact divisions of wavelengths of sound, and you can see how this works by making a very simple "guitar" from blocks of wood, a string and the rules of maths.
wavelengths are physics, as they're how sound travels.

circular - lovely with recorders - there was a proper Baroque orchestra on the Proms this year, and they were playing with proper 18th century instruments, including recorders which disappeared out of the orchestra when flutes became popular, in the 19th century (sorry if my dates aren't correct), and the string instruments were all with proper catgut and everything. such an amazing sound compared with today's instruments.

@circular I'm pretty sure you can audition at any time, not just at the playing days. That having said, if you want to do a non-playing day audition (as DD1 did last year) you might have to travel. Depends where you are, really.

They have a 3 year 6th form at her school. They do 4 A2s (or 5), plus the AQA extended project, plus critical thinking and/or (I think) general studies (waste of time I reckon but what do I know). All the kids seem to get fair offers to good universities. It's a pretty good school.