Do all State primary schools have to id G&T children?

[ElissaJ]

I really don't know if my DD is G&T or not - she's 7 and her reading's great; her artistic ability I'd say is pretty good, but then I'm biased. Her teacher at parents' evening just said "It's not v professional of me to say this, but she's well above average". Why not v professional? Thought schools were SUPPOSED to make this kind of judgement? How can I (tactfully) take this up with the school without implying that I think DD IS gifted?

At parents evening we're supposed to tell parents where we think the child is performing not necessarily in the class, but according to national expectations. eg. level 4 would be good for year 5 and above average. G&T is a bit more subjective I believe and is not just to do with levels. Guidance varies.

Many thanks, daisymo.

I think they identify them but they don't have to tell you

ElissaJ - Re the Gifted and Talented Register - all state schools have to list the top 5-10% of their pupils. Different schools use different criteria - some use SATs results, teacher recommendation, assessment of different/multiple intelligences, etc. There is nothing in the government guidelines which states schools must tell parents - many do not. Equally there was nothing in the original guidelines which stated what schools should do with the children on the Register - many schools simply created a list. As children are not measured against a national criteria a child may be on the G&T register in one school, but not when it moves to another (or vice versa).

As to how to approach the school - I would simply go back to the teacher and say that you had been thinking about what she had said and ask her to tell you what level your daughter is operating at.

There was more guidance last year I think on G&T. With the new frameworks and every child matters publications lessons are meant to be directed at those top 5-10% pupils. But it might be that one is G&T in art, one maths, etc. We have classes in sets so the lowest ability sets will not necessarily have any G&T pupils.

First find out if they have a G&T policy, the school may not. Then find out if telling the parents is part of the policy. If it is not then your DD may be on it without you knowing.

Daisymo, this seem to have happened in our school (secondary) last year. The first year was top 5% nationally and no-one had heard of it. Then nearly everyone of DD's friends got a letter. One was on it for Art, one for geography, one for sport, one for technology? So I figured that it may now be 10% for each subject which may mean that half the kids are one it for something.

well above average does NOT equal G&T, i'm afraid

What is the point of a list if nothing extra/different is offered to the children

Leosdad - I think the initial thinking was that given that schools have a responsibility to meet the needs of all pupils identifying the gifted was a first step to having their needs met. Many schools now have Gifted and Talented Co-ordinators (or Lead Teachers), some areas have a Gifted and Talented Team or Lead who can give guidance across all schools. Provision for the gifted and talented in schools is improving albeit it slowly.

Must have missed our primary then (no gifted and talented coordinator and the provision for above average has been a major problem for years) have been told by teachers that DCs are on the lists, so me being bold asked what that would lead to and met with blank. The year 6 teacher said they couldn't actually do anything because of SATS fortunately the secondary school is much better

leosdad - not surprised your primary hasn't done anything, many schools haven't ... yet. Secondary schools are much better - partly because the children then come across teachers who are actually delighted that a child is very interested/gifted in their subject!

unfortunately the teachers aren't particularly enthused to do more than they have to at the primary the good ones move on quickly (can get more money half a mile up the road at different authority) so the weaker ones remain with only the job shared classes standing out as beacons.

DD came home yesterday having done a practice SATS test and said she was the only one who knew what some of the stuff meant and that was because I had taught her or she had read about herself

Glad your DD did well - though your and her own efforts!

There is a point to the list. It's to identify and track a child who shows potential at whatever age. The point being that these children in our state education should be able to achieve 3 A grades at A level by the time they are 18. So no matter what background etc the children will be watched and guided, and hopefully not fall by the wayside in education terms.

Our school do not single the kids out with extra work etc. In fact my DD has only been on one outing to a science challenge at a Uni. She came home saying "I want to go to a place like that" .

In fact our school closely follow each child G&T or not and will liaise with parents over concerns but give credit where it is due. It's almost as if every child matters.

Every school is supposed to identify 5-10% as G&T. It's up to the school, though. Given that they don't apply universal standards you can draw your own conclusions as to whether Bash Street Comp's 5-10% are on a par with St Nice's, Leafylane's 5-10%.

If your child is one of the top 5-10% in her class she will be on the G&T register. But children are put on for different reasons, one may be outstanding at Maths, one at Sport, one an all-rounder etc. A good primary school willl be looking to stretch and challenge ALL their children anyway, but the register can help direct particular children to suitable provision - for example at our primary the Maths G&T kids have had extra classes at the secondary school, the sports G&T kids took part in a special development programme - there are special literacy sessions for tother children.
But parents are not necessarily informed that children are on the register, nor do they need to be IMO.

Regardless of whether your dd is G&T, Elissa, the school should be able to tell you what levels she is working on in literacy and maths. 2 (2 b)is the expected standard, the sort of average standard that the government would like children to reach at the end of Year 2 (though many won't). 3 is very good. A level below 2 may just mean that the child has not yet developed its strengths.

Discussing this should be part of what parents' evening is about. And from this you can draw your own conclusions as to whether she is reaching the standards she should or not.

Dc's infants schools did not identify G&T to parents but the junior school does. The provision for G&T is a lunchtime club in the ICT suite which these children may opt to join (dd didn't).

Also, they are streamed in maths and literacy, so if they are G&T they will be in top set, so will be doing harder work anyway. Dd is in Year 6 and they've been doing Year 8 work in maths, so I can hardly complain though they haven't mentioned the G&T word in this context.

I fully agree with rosa's last comment.

Why are we always so desperate to label our children as G&T? DD is on the list at her school for some things and she will do harder stuff in those areas, but there is no song and dance. I don't know who else is "on the list" and to be honest, I don't need to know.

Can't we jsut support our children, whatever their levels? DD is crap at maths so I help with that more than the other (G&T type) stuff

I'm a parent gov about to be asked to ratify a G&T policy in my ds's primary and to be honest it seems very vague and full of nonsense.

I think the most able need to be identified and stimulated with extra work of course. But this policy is saying they need to be taken on all sorts of special trips in school time. I agree they need stimulation but you could argue that every child in the school could beneift equally from that kind of special privilege.

I'm just uneasy about resources too. I feel that every child in my ds's class falls into one category of 'special' or other and those of us whose children aren't in any way 'special' seem to get so little in the way of acknowledgement, reward, and the things this policy says the G&T need. They definitely need it too but I wish teachers could look at all children in terms of their potential! ds's teacher only beams and praises the angels and the top group. My ds gets such negative facial expressions from her. It's so depressing for a parent. I just don't see how a middling child can really achieve without more encouragement from the teacher!

Excuse the moan!

Our primary is just putting into place a Gifted and Talented policy in response to government pressure. There is a list of children but parents are not told (wisely, in my opinion) and since the children are streamed and set within streams most children are being challenged at least some of the time. This year for the first time some specific activities took place for identified children in some year groups/subjects.

re.By ipanemagirl on Wed 09-Jul-08 12:37:10
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YOu should see if the school has a persoalised learning policy and I think then you will understand that all children need to be given different opportunities sutied to them indivisdually.Would you be so negativeif your child was extremely able and was going to be given opportunities due to the G & T policy?
On the basis of what you say, would you be against support for the SEN children? WHat about the children who haveEBD and cannot behave? Would you be happy if the school did nothing to deal with them?
IMO if you are a parent governer you really need to be ableto see the whoile picture:if you are always going to be seeing things in termsof children like your own, then I think you will always be unhappy with policies.

Also, how do you know who the teacher praises and smiles at? Perhaps the teacher praises and smiles at your child, but your child is just extra needy and wants all the attention all the time......?How many children are in your child's class? How many seconds of the day can the teacher be smiling and praising every child every day?

Does your child say this about all the staff?

it's quite odd that the teacher would say that it's unprofessional for him to comment on a student's ability very odd I think.

dd has 2B and 2As in numeracy and literacy this year (year 1) I think she's very smart but G&T? I'm not about to flag this up with the school at all as I don't see any benefits at her age! We do plenty of stuff at home and other activities - well rounded and all of that. School is fun for her, no one needs a label at that age.

Gosh katak, I didn't mean to give offence.

I wrote that piece as a mother not a parent gov. When I'm a parent governor I totally look at the whole picture and am very keen the SENCO spends time with all the children with special needs, gifted or otherwise. That is absolutely the right thing. I will ratify whatever the leadership team and experts ask me to. I'm a very supportive governor.

But as a parent I also just feel sad that my child's teacher never ever says anything positive to me about him or to him about him. I help out loads in the school and have watched her interaction with him carefully. He isn't needy, he expects nothing from her! Also she told him he done poorly in his SATS. So I'm not making this up. All parents think their children are special! and I think all children need a little encouragement.

Sorry she told him that he's done poorly in his SATS.