Looking for a independant school that can cope with enthusiasm.

[juliet123]

Hi, I am looking for a school for my son, he's 8, has skipped a year at school and is at the top of the year he's in now. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a secondary school that has a junior school attached but it needs to have some sort of financial help as I'm a single mum. He's a bit on the anti- social side, he's like an eccentric mad professor and finds it easy to annoy other children. He gets on better with the teachers then he does with other children as he finds them easier to talk to. He reads alot, full of enthusiasm for learning, asks loads of questions, he's very quick to learn but he also does not like to write things down the way his teachers want him to and is a bit of a clown. He is at least 2 years ahead in english, maths and science (very advanced stuff, string theory, quarks, atomic theory), he also likes philosophy. I've looked at all of the schools where we live, they say that they have children like him but when I take him to have a look around they can be very rude to him and impatient. I have no choice but to move to find somewhere for him, I'm thinking of London as we spend alot of time going to the museums there anyway. I've got the prospectus for Kings in Wimbledon but I have no idea if they would be able to manage him. He's a bit of a square peg and I have not found anywhere that will not try and turn him into someone who he is not. Does anyone know anywhere that will be able to nurture him? Thanks

Well they're not traditionally thought of as academic but I wonder about somewhere like Sands (google and you should find it). If you read the intro by the head it suggests that they would be happy to nurture an academic square peg. It's nowhere near London though, it's in Devon!

Lots of schools now operate bursary schemes for cases where taking up an opportunity might cause finacnial hardhsip. You do need to shortlist, visit them and discuss your ds potential relasistically though. Not sure what you may mean by rude and impatient, it may simply be an interpretation of a system which you're not used to. Do they talk to him alone as well as with you ?

I hate the word nurture. God knows why I used it

Alleyns in Dulwich

from juliet123, now something else!
He wanted to join in the conversation, as it was about him he didn't want to be left out. One headteacher told him to be quiet, one walked off, one teacher said that some gifted children can be immature, then she shouted 'INTERUPTING ADULTS IS VERY IMMATURE!' I think they must have alot of bright children so they can take their pick. Most would rather have a bright child who does as they are told and gives them a quiet life rather than a square peg. I can move anywhere, the things we do for our kids.

Juliet123, have you ever thought your son might have Aspergers?

I have thought about it. I have a friend who's a psychologist. He thinks that joe's bored and is conducting a social experiment to see how far he can push people. He's recommended that I set firm boundaries and emphasise the fact that when he's rude or messing about it makes me feel really bad (joe aims to please, only me though). His head thinks he has a few traits but that I should not worry. He's lovely at home though, very helpful, considerate and caring. I'm not sure. He does look after people at school when he feels like it, just gets carried away. I'm trying to teach him about other people's levels of tolerance. He say's he's being nice and not annoying people but I have no idea if he's being honest as I'm not at school with him. He does not see hiself as a child, I think this has something to do with being the kid of a single mum and his level of knowledge and understanding.

It is so hard at times. I was actually saying to an EP this week (as my ds is undergoing assessment for a Statement) that I cannot be there at school with him! I only asked about Aspergers as much of what you said in your opening post is very, very similar to my ds. I don't look on it as a handicap or anything to be worried about, I look on it as a signpost. It means I know how to research the way forward for my ds and what school is most appropirate for him as I want him to achieve his full potential. Your ds sounds lovely by the way. Have to say that as I am biased I know.

By the way, there is a WORLD of difference between a psychologist and an educational or clinical psycholgist. The latter are trained to observe and dx children's conditions.

Many psychologists who specialise in adults would not be able to see the way a child's mind would really work, except in the adult context hence your friend assuming that your ds is bored and pushing boundaries. He is not bored, he is just him.

I hope you find the very right school. I think education is so very important for a childs self esteem. They know they are bright and to them, they have to succeed in the academic world.

Hmm. He's like a completely different child at home. When my neighbours kid comes round to play he's considerate and fairly patient with him. They rarely argue and he doesn't wind him up. He's nice to my neighbour aswell. I think that people have to prove that they can teach him something, he's normally ok with them if he knows that they know things. I took him to see a doctor (not EP) on tuesday as he has flat feet, within a couple of minutes he was messing around, the doctor just said "he's very bright isn't he?". That's all th gp says, that's what everyone says. I think he's got too much going around in his head and gets bored. He's ok when he has things to do, he concentrates and gets on with it but only produces what he feels like doing. He's quite good with the small kids at school (they start at 3). He picks them up when they fall over, knows when people are mad. My friend thinks that he'll calm down when he finds other children that are like him. He just needs to know that there are brighter children. STRESS!

Newton Prep (Battersea) was set up, originally, with the aim of catering for the very bright (not ignoring the difficulties, including social difficulties, that very bright kids have sometimes) - but I am not sure how much that the school follows that original idea. It is worth getting their info, maybe?

It is definitely true that schools that can take their pick of children will pick the most "teachable" - which doesn't always mean the brightest. And, I have to say, the London selective private school scene is particularly competitive - there are masses of bright kids around, and teachable ones too; so I think in truth London, at least central London, might be even more difficult than where you are. Certainly I think it unlikely you would find a school ready to cut fees (there was a similar thread on this not so long ago - "Does early reading mean free school?" or something like that - have a look).

By the way - there was a time when I thought the company of other clever children was what my son needed - but actually not: when he did a tutoring thing with children who were as capable as he academically (but were streets ahead of him socially - they were the "teachable" sort) he floundered even more than when he was with a mixed ability group, where he had at least a sort of cachet as Maths Boy. So if your son is happy-ish where he is I would be quite careful about changing things.

He's quite happy. We have a few niggles but the school is 3-11 years so I have to find him somewhere for next september. It's possible that he may be less antisocial by then but I wouldn't stick money on it. I have seen a tv programme about gifted children that has a child who attends Kings in Wimbledon. He's on the same wavelength as my son so I know schools like this are out there. Somewhere. There just isn't any where I live. There are a few teachables in his class, I think he's corrupted half of them. The others find him annoying . He doesn't have the deep and meaningfuls with them, he saves it for me and his teachers. I'm not sure if he needs a like minded child his own age, would probably corrupt him aswell though! From what they say I don't think he's that bad. He's learning not to be rude, he can work in a team (but not for PE), does not interupt the teacher any more, gets on with his work (does not completely do what the teacher wants but we are working on that). He just has energy and a will to learn. His last teacher said that he was a joy to teach. Sent him home with homework to research astrophysics though. Wasn't a very good teacher, disorganised, poor class control. Lasted less than a term. Poor bloke. I think I could manage the school fees, I finish my MSc in september so I can earn more money, I have a year to get some experience before moving. Things have a way of working out.

The Mall school for boys in Twickenham seems to be carving out a niche for taking boys who are not in the social mainstream...they specialise in "personal educational development" for the square pegs...try them

I think most private academic preps would take him unless his behaviour is so bad he would ruin the classes for all the other children whose parents would then say what are we paying for! I know someone with a son who is a bit like this and he and his twin just got into a school at 7+. She wasn't sure whether to show the school his educational psychologist's report or not (in the end didn't). We will see how he fits in. He knows the entire London underground timetable off by heart etc - adults love him as do my student children and he's quite clever. Although that one is reasonably well behaved. It's his twin who isn't. She got a small bursary too. I do think boys like this fit in much better at this kind of school.

Thankyou. I don't think he's bad, a bit obnoxious but I think he just needs a school that understands him and is willing to be fair but firm. He also really wants to learn philosophy. I've been reading about it so that I can talk to him, It's weird, everything I read he's talked about. It's almost as if he already knows it. He likes atoms and reading. He doesn't have any friends who know about this so he spnds alot of time talking to me about it. I have a psychology lecturer at the university of derby who has offered to sit and chat to him. I don't think I could cope with more thn one though, I think I'd go nuts. Everyone's been really helpful. I'm so grateful.

Westminster is very very good with boys like this, the place is full of them, and unlike many schools it is genuinely acceptable, even cool, to be quirky and intellectual - and I mean intellectual, rather than academically successful, which is not necessarily quite the same thing. They have a prep school - Westminster Under School - and a largish proportion of the senior school students come from there so I'd guess they'd be similarly good with boys of this kind. I don't know what their bursary scheme is like at the Under School but they must have one of some sort. I was very similar to your description of your ds as a child, and I'd be happy to chat more privately if you'd like - is there a way to do this on this site? I'm not sure.

Those sort of schools have loads of applicants per place, my daughters did those sort of entrance tests and you get lots of applicants per place and whoever scores top in the exams (get some practice papers, don't go in cold) gets the places and then usually there's an interview too and you do need to register a year in advance I think (if not earlier in some schools). I do not know how many free places they have. The person I know just got a modest bursary (discount) on fees but that depends on your income. Also look at some of the trusts - the Sutton trust or is it Beckwith trust pay fees for boys at prep and then the schools they go on to at 13+ in some cases.

Westminster, you have to register your child first (and pay the fee), they you get invited to have a look around. I am reluctant to pay the fee in case he does not like it. He's over 2 years ahead and picks things up really quickly so I'm hoping he'll be ok. My income is zilch. I know that it's really hard to try and get a place due to all of the bright kids (and the ones that are pushed to the brink of destruction by their parents), I'm going to give it a try anyway. As he's a year ahead at school he might not have to sit the 11+ anyway because they don't like him being out of his year group and will put him back with children his own age. This kind of makes him very advanced (academically)?

May be they would waive the fee as you have no income, at Westminster underschool.
Most private schools we have been associated with anyway for our 5 children the chilren at primary level are at least a year ahead of state schools simply because the schools mine are at have competitive entry so they are only teaching clever children in the first place. That is not the case for all private schools. My oldest was a year ahead for a while but the schools don't often do that and in the end she repeated a year. I went through school a year young but I was always the smallest in the class not that that really mattered. So was my brother.

His school didn't have competative entry. He was assessed when he started in year 1. He was given the year 1 (for the school, was a higher level then the state schools) assessment paper and scored 140/140. He could do bond assessment in verbal reasoning for age 11-12 and scored 96%. Maths was for age 10-11, he scored 94%. He did these at 7. It's not a case of him being ahead by a year, it's three or four or five. He wants to learn philosophy and atomic theory aswell. Ohh, joy!

Mount House Tavistock Devon is a fab school. My DS is bright and enquiring, and that is fostered there. They teach a broad curriculum which engages and stimulates the students.

They take students until form 6 (year 8), and are successful with scholarships to the major independent secondary schools.

I took DS out to accompany us on an overseas posting with the Armed Forces. I wish I had left him there, even though it would have entailed boarding, which he was desperate to avoid, as it was a first class education. He is in year 7 at the local British school, and he is bored and not stretched.

Thanyou. I had a look at the sands website, I was a bit concerned when it said that MOST of their students passed english GCSE and MOST got maths aswell. I'm slowly looking at the other suggestions. It's a mine field out there, there's so many. I should get his dad to find him one then I can blame him if things go pear shaped.
Thankyou for all of the suggestions. Has anyone any information on Westminster? Under school aswell please.

Hello, thankyou for helping, I've looked at all of these and they all only go up to 13 years. I really need a secondary school that has a junior school attached. Am going to phone up Westminster under school and beg on monday.

Have you got a copy of the Good Schools Guide? - you can subscribe to it online too, and it's really worth it for the outlay (about £14 I think?).

It will tell you exactly what is nearest to you, and what schools go all the way up to 18, whether they're good with unusual abilities, etc. And I'd be completely sure that anything of the sort you want would be in there - so that by reading through that, you will have a much more thorough picture of the options than you can get from here.

It seems to me that you want something like my old school - George Watsons in Edinburgh - which is nursery -> 18, selective but also huge, so able to cater for lots of different kinds of abilities. Eg there was a chap in my year who won the Spectator all-Britain essay prize two years running, & went on to get a starred first at Oxford (French & philosophy). No idea where he is now - presumably an academic - but I have never in my life (which has involved knowing a lot of clever people by now!) come across anyone quite so stratospherically brilliant as he.