Exposure to second hand e-cigarette smoke on the street.

[jake2026]

I'm beginning to think that e-cigarette smoke is worse than tobacco smoke. I know it's an aerosol but I call it e-cigarette smoke.

It's a problem on the street, not just enclosed spaces. It gets everywhere and you can't avoid it. It gets into the lungs and you can't clear your lungs.

It can feel debilitating.

Sometimes it makes the eyes feel heavy and irritated.

Occasionally I have even felt pressure on the chest.

It can take hours for the lungs to clear. Sometimes you can still feel it the next day.

I'm perfectly OK at other times.

Do other people notice problems?

I get really bad headaches if I'm around anyone that uses them.

If I say anything they tell me they are perfectly safe in their opinio n so I choose to stay away and then get moaned at for that.

I've never noticed or been bothered by anyone else's vape 'smoke' in the street. I guess if I was standing in one place and there were vapers on each side of me also standing still I could imagine I'd notice. But when I'm walking I'm not near anyone else for long enough.

It’s not worse safety wise

I think it’s more likely to be anxiety. I overreact when I smell weed and I know it so I’m working on it.

Ffs

I smoke tobacco and I don't like vape fumes, but that's probably because I'm used to genuine tobacco smoke. The perfumes in vapes don't sit well with me at all.

Medical opinion is that vape fumes are less harmful than tobacco smoke.

My concern about vapes and their smoke is that many people buy their vapes from markets/online/their mate at the pub, because they are cheap. These ones are often illegally imported, do not meet UK or European safety standards, and have been found to contain dangerous and carcinogenic substances - for example heavy metals, formaldehyde, THC and other drugs.

Car exhaust fumes and air pollution are terrible. I must get someone to stop this.

They irritate my airways and the back of my throat gets tickly but it much more akin to air freshener or spray cleaners etc which can give me allergy like symptoms - I'm not sure if it is an allergy but my face goes puffy and itchy.

It's not "smoke" as there is nothing burning but it's also not just exhaled water as you have the chemical flavouring.

I think there currently isn't enough information on the effects of vaping but from the research that's coming out it's likely to be "less and different risks" compared to smoking rather than being completely safe.

Broadly speaking none of the synthetic chemicals we breath in are good for our lungs and bodies and a good number for the natural ones too.

Thank you Superscientist.

It irritates your airways and makes your face go puffy and itchy yet you don't seem too concerned. I'm surprised.

You say "not just exhaled water". This suggests that you are under the common mis-apprehension that the e-liquid is converted to water vapour. The e-liquid contains glycols and glycerols. This is used to create an aerosol to simulate smoke. There is no chemical change. This is not water vapour. If I am wrong could you please correct me.

Can I use your scientific knowledge to answer a question.

It seems as though the chemicals from e-cigarettes collect in the lungs. I suspect that smokers perpetually have a significant quantity of e-liquid in their lungs. Have there been any studies to measure this? Could you give an estimate?

If a typical smoker uses 3 grams e-liquid per day. What percentage of this gets into the bloodstream? How does the body dispose of it? And does any get into the brain?

Thank you.

Sorry, it's the air fresheners and cleaning products that make my face go puffy. I don't use any spray cleaners and air freshener, perfumes etc. My former workplace stopped using them to prevent me reacting to them.

It's easy to step out of the line of someone smoking an e-cig and that's usually enough for me not to inhale their smoke.

There is quite a bit of research on going into e-cigs but it is early days. It's not just the chemicals in the liquids but the mechanism of vaporising the liquids and breathing them in - heavy metal toxicity is potentially an issue. It might be a long time before we are fully aware to the effects of vaping. My grandad died from smoking related COPD at 92. He stopped smoking at 57. I wouldn't be smoking a vape beyond a short term use to aid quitting smoking cigarettes. The biggest risk is the lack of regulation in the products and not knowing what it is that you are inhaling. I don't believe there is enough information about the risks for people to be making an informed choice. Less bad than smoking doesn't not mean risk free.

I think we in general need to be more mindful about what we are putting into our bodies and avoiding unnecessary chemicals where possible.

Do you mean heated tobacco.or filthy liquid tapes?

filthy liquid tapes

Does anyone know the answer to this question?

If a typical smoker uses 3 grams e-liquid per day. What percentage of this gets into the bloodstream? How does the body dispose of it? And does any get into the brain?

I use heated tobacco and it is great for me, i would never smoke a cigarette now and cannot imagine smelling like that again. I am a hypocrite but I hate vapes with a passion, the vile stink of sugar and the sheer amount. My.little sticks exude a minimal amount of smoke and it does smell of farts and popcorn but not on that level. In Dubai airport they have Iqos lounges so we dont have to go in the disgusting smoking rooms. One of the nicer things about going there regularly.

Where are you that you are passing enough smoke everyday that is bothering you? I can't say I've ever walked through enough to bother me.

Newcastle.

On Northumberland Street alone there are sometimes 40 or 50 people puffing at any one time. I haven't counted. That's just an estimate.

When they exhale the cloud breaks up quite quickly but the chemicals don't disappear. The stuff lingers everywhere. If you don't notice it maybe you are fortunate. Or maybe not.

If you spend half an hour walking around the shopping areas it gets into your lungs. It can build up gradually.

It depends on the chemical in the vape. How
deeply they draw on it, their size/health, their metabolism and so on

There are a few ways the body deals with chemicals. The liver and kidneys are the main things. They often work in tandem once something has made it through to the blood stream is passes through the liver, the liver modifies the substance usually to break it up into small components so it's is more readily cleared by the body or to make it more soluble in water so it can be cleared by the kidneys into urine.

This is why sports people have to give urine samples as you can detected things that have left the body via urine.

There are proteins in the blood and the vast majority of drugs that enter the blood stream end up stuck to these proteins. When we measure this when developing pharmaceutical we can see 95+% of the drug stuck to these proteins and it stops them from being able to leave the blood and getting into the cells we are trying to target for our disease of interest.

The body also has a safety net to protect the brain. Most of the body requires things to be water soluble to move around the blood. Before a substance gets into the brain it has to pass through the Blood Brain Barrier, this is a fat layer and the a substance has to be soluble in fats to get through. This means that is most things that enter the body through the blood stream don't make it through to the brain and it is a challenge to get medication that target the brain that can be taken orally.

In terms of vapes it does depend on the ingredients. You say 3g a day but 3g of what? Every substance as an LD50 this is the dose that is lethal to halve of the people that take it. This can be a miniscule amount for something very dangerous like such as botulinum toxin where the toxic dose is 0.001 mg per kilo of body weight, things that are toxic but not in the qualities we use like caffeine with 100s mg per kilo and practically not toxic like sugar which has an LD50 of 30,000 mg per kilo of body weight. So when you say how harmful if 3g a day of a solution we'll it depends? 3g of botulinum toxin ... That's a very big problem. 3g of a sugar solution no problem at all.

I haven’t noticed this ever.

Maybe you should get a lung function test op.

You’re being very dramatic about this and your terminology is wrong.

its not smoke. Its vapour. End of. You can’t call it smoke because nothing is being burnt or combusted.

its not grams it’s millilitres. And the average allegedly is about 2ml.

You’re breathing on diluted mist. Unless you’re behind on of the pricks with massive plumes of vape, the amount will be tiny.

if you’re on a street busy enough for 40/50 people
to be vaping, and it’s estimated 10% of people in the UK vape, that is an incredibly busy street… meaning you’re being exposed to far more potential allergens and toxins than second hand vapour … it’s most likely to be one of those causing these bizarre “symptoms”

God that's gross! Seems like they need some kind of addiction centre setting up there!

Minor point but liquids have a weight as well as a volume and depending on the density of the liquid it is possible for a 2ml liquid to weigh 3g

Oh no I know that, don’t worry :)

often covert to grams when cooking for ease

but in this instance when she’s determined to find issues and seeming anxious, it felt appropriate to point out the different because most people eg health care workers discuss it in mls not grams.

or at least here they do.

Do you have health anxiety? There is no scientific evidence that second hand vapour from vaping affects people in any way. You are more likely to be affected from car fumes as you’re walking down the street than second hand vape fumes.

I think you should go to your GP if passing a vaper outside is affecting you physically to that degree just incase you have some underlying conditions youre not aware of.