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General election 2024

Women - don't lose your daughters' rights

202 replies

Isthisexpected · 02/07/2024 11:54

I came across two women this morning at playgroup who have no idea that the Greens, Labour, Lib Dems all have policies that will privilege men with various gender identities over women.

Please please before you vote - look up what each party believes is a woman. This will tell you all you need to know about whether they'll protect your daughter from having to change in front of a person born male, or share a tent with them at camp or compete against them in sport, or share a toilet and living room in a women's refuge....

I'm not telling you who to vote for. But please be informed about women's rights, for your daughters/grandchildren if not yourself.

OP posts:
Yellowbananasarebetterthangreen · 02/07/2024 20:50

@MimitteAndElsaGoToSwitzerland
obviously what you went through was awful, a horrendous experience and memory but how does your awful experience somehow mean men taking the place of women in sports competitions somehow ok? Or men posing as women in womens hospital wards raping women. Or men in womens prisons?

Italianita · 02/07/2024 20:53

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

DumbassHamsterSitterPerson · 02/07/2024 20:53

Alwaystired94 · 02/07/2024 20:48

and my questions weee in response to a poster claiming that it can’t get much safer than makes not in female spaces. i explained how that is not true because majority of the time they are not being raped in those circumstances.

Yes. But the way a conversation (usually) works is one person (the one you replied to)says one thing.
Another (you) replies.
Then either the original person, or someone else if its not a private conversation also answers.
I answered the question you asked. Which was how does that help the little girl whos dad comes into her bedroom?
You didn't mention safety in your reply, even if that was the original question.

And yes, the vast majority of sexual abuse is by someone known to the victim. That doesn't mean we make it easier for other men to also abuse them.

And AFAIK there are statistics that show sexual assaults are more common in mixed sex /gender neutral facilities. Hopefully a cleverer MNer than me will know where to find them.

Emmanuelll · 02/07/2024 20:54

This again 🥱

I think it's more important that I don't find myself in a position where my daughter needs expensive medical care and I can't afford to fund it myself.

What then?

Alwaystired94 · 02/07/2024 21:00

DumbassHamsterSitterPerson · 02/07/2024 20:53

Yes. But the way a conversation (usually) works is one person (the one you replied to)says one thing.
Another (you) replies.
Then either the original person, or someone else if its not a private conversation also answers.
I answered the question you asked. Which was how does that help the little girl whos dad comes into her bedroom?
You didn't mention safety in your reply, even if that was the original question.

And yes, the vast majority of sexual abuse is by someone known to the victim. That doesn't mean we make it easier for other men to also abuse them.

And AFAIK there are statistics that show sexual assaults are more common in mixed sex /gender neutral facilities. Hopefully a cleverer MNer than me will know where to find them.

so it doesn’t stop those situations i outlined. which is my point. i never stated it didn’t help at all, just that it doesn’t reduce where the vast majority of offences occur.

what counts as a mixed gender space? if it includes housing that’s pretty obvious isn’t it

DumbassHamsterSitterPerson · 02/07/2024 21:02

Alwaystired94 · 02/07/2024 21:00

so it doesn’t stop those situations i outlined. which is my point. i never stated it didn’t help at all, just that it doesn’t reduce where the vast majority of offences occur.

what counts as a mixed gender space? if it includes housing that’s pretty obvious isn’t it

What did you mean by how does that help... then?

Mixed sex facilities, not homes. Public toilets, changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards etc.

Alwaystired94 · 02/07/2024 21:06

DumbassHamsterSitterPerson · 02/07/2024 21:02

What did you mean by how does that help... then?

Mixed sex facilities, not homes. Public toilets, changing rooms, prisons, hospital wards etc.

more common than in single spaces? or? because i fail to believe more crimes are being committed publicly than in homes and similar.

because you didn’t read the thread - the didn’t help comment is in reply to PP stating how it can’t be much safer. clearly it can is my point.

voting tory and claiming it’s for womens rights is a lie. they have one policy in regards to women’s right and all of their others and their recent history show they don’t care for women whatsoever. and most likely won’t even hold themselves to their promise.

DumbassHamsterSitterPerson · 02/07/2024 21:13

Alwaystired94 · 02/07/2024 21:06

more common than in single spaces? or? because i fail to believe more crimes are being committed publicly than in homes and similar.

because you didn’t read the thread - the didn’t help comment is in reply to PP stating how it can’t be much safer. clearly it can is my point.

voting tory and claiming it’s for womens rights is a lie. they have one policy in regards to women’s right and all of their others and their recent history show they don’t care for women whatsoever. and most likely won’t even hold themselves to their promise.

I have read the thread. IiRC my first comment Was that I won't ever vote Tory.

And once again you asked "how does that help" in response to a comment about single sex (public) spaces. You didn't ask why they were safer. I answered how they helped.

And no. Abuse is more common in mixed sex than single sex spaces. I assumed it was obvious that I was comparing it to the opposite thing.

Alwaystired94 · 02/07/2024 21:17

DumbassHamsterSitterPerson · 02/07/2024 21:13

I have read the thread. IiRC my first comment Was that I won't ever vote Tory.

And once again you asked "how does that help" in response to a comment about single sex (public) spaces. You didn't ask why they were safer. I answered how they helped.

And no. Abuse is more common in mixed sex than single sex spaces. I assumed it was obvious that I was comparing it to the opposite thing.

the conversation was in regards to how female only spaces does not help make those women and girls safer.

that’s why i was questioning what comes under the definition of mixed sex space. as if it just means anything not regarded as single sex then it leaves it open to a lot of strange reading.

Alwaystired94 · 02/07/2024 21:18

DumbassHamsterSitterPerson · 02/07/2024 21:13

I have read the thread. IiRC my first comment Was that I won't ever vote Tory.

And once again you asked "how does that help" in response to a comment about single sex (public) spaces. You didn't ask why they were safer. I answered how they helped.

And no. Abuse is more common in mixed sex than single sex spaces. I assumed it was obvious that I was comparing it to the opposite thing.

also i never said you were voting tory. but i do have an issue with people voting for it and claiming it’s because they will protect women. that’s disingenuous considering their actions speak much louder than their words.

fiddleleaffig · 02/07/2024 22:29

Just imagine, on top of the issues that you mentioned, if we also had biological males in the toilets and changing rooms, with our daughters.

Toilets have locks? Changing rooms have private cubicles?
What happens when your daughter goes to uni? Mine has just finished second year and had to share a house and bathroom with 3 male strangers. The horrors! Don't worry though, she has survived just fine Wink

fiddleleaffig · 02/07/2024 22:35

InfoSecInTheCity · 02/07/2024 16:32

@Alwaystired94 and as it stands right now with services being inclusive of men under the category of women, if a woman or girl is raped by someone she knows:

  • she won't be able to request for a biological female to do her rape exam without being labelled transphobic
  • she will be advised to "reframe her trauma" or attend inclusivity training if the experience means that she needs female only health care providers for routine appointments due to the trauma she experiences when in intimate situations with males
  • she can't guarantee that the rape counselling group she attends won't have a man in it saying he's a woman
  • if she needs the services of a domestic abuse hostel she can't guarantee that the other service users or the staff members will be female even if it is described as a women's only service
  • she may have to use the preferred pronouns of the trans-identified male who raped her in court referring to her rapist as 'she' to validate their identity

And just for added horror some lucky woman may end up locked in a cell in prison with the rapist because the rapist has invoked their 'I feel like a woman' card

(The above have all happened, they are documented real examples of how the inclusion of males in female only provisions has affected women)

Yes, we know the stats and women are significantly more likely to be assaulted by a man that they know. That doesn't mean that the destruction of female only services and spaces is negligible.

But if this is all happening already, well then this has all happened under a Tory government, so what exactly do you think voting them in for another term is going to do?
After all, actions speak louder than words

Keha · 02/07/2024 22:49

I'm aware, if you bother to keep an eye on the election you will be aware. Most of the women I know are aware, most don't.feel it's the issue which will decide their vote. Few have any confidence the Tories wouldn't change their stance if it suited them.

Italianita · 02/07/2024 22:53

fiddleleaffig · 02/07/2024 22:29

Just imagine, on top of the issues that you mentioned, if we also had biological males in the toilets and changing rooms, with our daughters.

Toilets have locks? Changing rooms have private cubicles?
What happens when your daughter goes to uni? Mine has just finished second year and had to share a house and bathroom with 3 male strangers. The horrors! Don't worry though, she has survived just fine Wink

Not everyone is so lucky.
But keep taking the risk eh?

InfoSecInTheCity · 02/07/2024 22:55

fiddleleaffig · 02/07/2024 22:29

Just imagine, on top of the issues that you mentioned, if we also had biological males in the toilets and changing rooms, with our daughters.

Toilets have locks? Changing rooms have private cubicles?
What happens when your daughter goes to uni? Mine has just finished second year and had to share a house and bathroom with 3 male strangers. The horrors! Don't worry though, she has survived just fine Wink

Ahhh yes the 'your toilet at home is gender neutral' response.

Changing rooms in shops are very often just 'secured' with curtains, even when they have doors they are usually not floor to ceiling and have large gaps under and over. There have been many examples of men placing phones beneath the curtain. Back in the good old days a few years ago, these men will have been easily spotted because they weren't allowed in the women's changing rooms so they stood out and would be thrown out. Now no one can question the presence of perverted men because if questioned they just have to say 'how very dare you! This offense and humiliation is literal violence, for I am a very special kind of woman!'

Changing rooms in gyms and older council leisure centres often have NO cubicles, just a big room with some benches and lockers. As a woman you consent to sharing that space with other women because it says on the door that it's the women's changing room. You know because there are no cubicles, that even with careful towel arrangements you are likely to accidentally flash a boob or see someone else's boob, but you accept that because it's all women together. Except when a bloke in a dress gets his cock out and stands watching while you try to get your swimsuit on under the towel.

Bathrooms in shared university accommodation (and general houses) are single use, fully enclosed, lockable spaces, which are used only by the residents of that property and the people they have invited to be there. Toilets in public spaces are used by anyone and everyone, including dirty pervert men you don't know who like to do fun things like stick cameras under the great big gap at the bottom of the door and record unwilling, unconsenting women doing a wee, or changing their tampons.

There are whole categories for this and the changing room videos on Pornhub, it's a common masturbatory aid for other dirty pervert men.

The whole issue isn't that women believe all Transgender people are wrong uns. The issue is how do we know which male person is transgender and which male person is a dirty pervert man?

We all know that men with a desire to hurt women and children will go to extraordinary lengths to put themselves in a position where they have access to hurt them. 8 yrs training to be a doctor or going through priest school (no idea about religion so can't remember what this process is actually called), becoming teachers or social workers, years of volunteering to get prominent positions in food banks, hostels, scouts etc.

Why then is it so hard to believe that they'd skip all of that and just put on a pair of tight jeans, a bit of lipstick and call themselves Sandra if they know it will get them access to all those same places and services without the need for any hard work?

InfoSecInTheCity · 02/07/2024 22:59

@fiddleleaffig I have never said I will be voting Tory, in fact this is now the third time in this thread I have explicitly stated I will NOT be voting Tory.

My post was about all the ways that a woman or girl is affected by current degradation of right and single sex spaces. It was in response to a poster who kept going on about how most rapes and assaults are committed by someone the woman/girl knows so single sex spaces/services are of limited benefit.

bombaybicycle · 02/07/2024 22:59

Oh the OP didn't return...

BIossomtoes · 02/07/2024 23:14

bombaybicycle · 02/07/2024 22:59

Oh the OP didn't return...

Quelle surprise.

MrsSkylerWhite · 02/07/2024 23:24

Fizzadora · Today 20:06
No you fucking don't because they are men. MEN.

Why do you feel that you have the right to tell another woman how she should think/feel?

BIossomtoes · 02/07/2024 23:49

MrsSkylerWhite · 02/07/2024 23:24

Fizzadora · Today 20:06
No you fucking don't because they are men. MEN.

Why do you feel that you have the right to tell another woman how she should think/feel?

It’s a common feature to tell people who don’t agree that they’re womaning wrong. 🤷‍♀️

Olidorjo · 03/07/2024 00:47

So OP never replied 🙄

OatFlatWhiteForMe · 03/07/2024 00:56

StarDolphins · 02/07/2024 13:00

I was voting for Labour but now I’m not because of this reason. I also won’t for tories as they’re terrible for animal welfare. So rather than choosing one that hates women & one that hates animals, I will just turn up on the day & tick any other box.

Best avoid Reform.. they think of women as less than animals.

GrammarTeacher · 03/07/2024 07:46

I will say this again as some are clearly ignoring it. If you insist on sex at birth spaces we will end up with trans men in women's spaces. This will make it EASIER for predators to get in to women's spaces as they will just say they are trans men. It will be less safe.

GrammarTeacher · 03/07/2024 07:48

And also, the Conservatives are the party of austerity. The office of budgetary responsibility states this had a disproportionately negative effect on women.
Why would any woman vote Tory.

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