Women - don't lose your daughters' rights

[Isthisexpected]

I came across two women this morning at playgroup who have no idea that the Greens, Labour, Lib Dems all have policies that will privilege men with various gender identities over women.

Please please before you vote - look up what each party believes is a woman. This will tell you all you need to know about whether they'll protect your daughter from having to change in front of a person born male, or share a tent with them at camp or compete against them in sport, or share a toilet and living room in a women's refuge....

I'm not telling you who to vote for. But please be informed about women's rights, for your daughters/grandchildren if not yourself.

People are ignoring it as it doesn't make any sense.

It makes as much sense as any other post on this thread.

I think it goes like this:

Imagine you're in the ladies and transmen come in.
We don't mind because underneath the mens clothes we know they're women.

Therefore men can come in and don't even need to wear a dress. Just wear their usual mens clothes and say they are transmen.

This makes it even EASIER for predators.

Has this actually happened ever?

The women who are so concerned about your daughter's rights should take a look at the thread where the OP can't get a surgical abortion due to funding cuts. Made by the Tories who 'know what a woman is'

No idea. Just trying to understand what pp meant

It’s the logical result, isn’t it?

People like this only care about a single aspect of Womens Rights. If that wasn't true they wouldn't be advocating for not voting for a party who want to tackle VAWG.

Yes sorry, I was asking PP. Quoted wrong post!

This corrupt and self-serving shambles of a government has thrown women and pretty much most of the UK under the bus.
Our waterways are full of sewage, erosion of our personal and environmental protections, gutting of public services. A literal shit-show. All on this government, they’ve been in control.

Tories are TERRIBLE for this country. Of course I’m not voting for them and of course they don’t give a shit about women, they never have.

I agree lots of other issues that affect women are so important. This shouldn't be an issue at all, really. But removing the very definition of what a woman is is not just one issue, it is underlying every other issue and impacts on them all.
If there's no way to distinguish women from any other type of human then how can policies, refuges, medical care, charities offer appropriate support?
There is something deeply misogynistic at the heart of the TWAW bandwagon.

Yes they are important but if people are claiming that it's the feminist thing to do to vote Tory then they don't care about bettering women's lives. They care about trans rights/womens rights only.

It's been stated time and time again that there are exemptions for spaces even for TW with a GRC, that's not the issue. Right now, there are not enough rape crisis centers to keep up with 'demand' (😩) so they aren't able to offer the services needed. Same with the NHS where it comes to wards being single sex, this is supposed to be done. It's not a case of the only failures on that are in regards to TW being on female wards, it's that there are not enough beds or resources to keep them separate due to underfunding. 44,000 breaches in 1 year and no they weren't all TW. I was in a ward this year that ended up being mixed sex but because i had to put my physical health first, i accepted it. That is not ok.

The problem is the communication on it all is toxic from both sides. GC are not speaking for all women just as people who believe TWAW are not speaking for all women. We can give people a choice. There isn't enough of a population to sustain Trans only rape centers everywhere, so i think a good middle ground would be the option of "Do you feel comfortable having an inclusive group session or would you prefer single sex?" It's not going to be 100% in either camp. And the argument about hearing male voices can be traumatic in those situations is valid but then TransMen will be accessing those also who may have a stereotypical male voice and looks. So would that not also be traumatic? No-one ever seems to be speak on that side of it.

I think the "toxic on both sides" trope is not based on reality, any more than any disagreement can be viewed as toxic. We have put up with "#no debate" for so long that once we are actually being allowed to raise concerns without being shouted down as transphobic the backlash is to claim both "sides" are equally toxic.
People saying they can't vote Labour are not automatically saying vote Conservative. I haven't voted for either, but I am seriously pissed off that I've basically had to waste my vote to find someone who represents my interests.

The exemptions are simply not clear enough and not understood by service providers, backed up by a Stonewall trained public sector and government who have been told that self ID gives you the right of entry to wherever you want.

The toxicity is on both sides. Dismissing that is disingenuous. KJK saying that landlords and employers should be allowed to discriminate against those who are trans is an example.

Not all GC views are transphobic. That's why a lot of us can see the difference between the two. Many GC don't hate or speak lowly of Trans people. But the ones who do are transphobic. How are they not clear enough when KS isn't in power yet? It shows in the EA right now there is exemptions for GRC holders in situations such as refuge/rape crisis centers. One of the points is their also needs to be access to alternative services for those excluded, which considering how insanely screwed those places have been isn't something most can achieve.

the #nodebate was awful, agreed. You won't hear any different from me.

The Tories haven't suddenly changed their minds, they have been gradually shifting ground for quite some time. And they haven't refused to support the female politicians who've been promoting this shift either.

Nah it's a big chinny reckon from me re their about turn.

They aren't even all on the same page about it anyway.

Yes

yes what?

The OP says specifically that she's not telling us who to vote for.

I agree with her wholeheatedly and will be voting for a socialist candiate who knows what a woman is and will be an excellent constituency MP. I know not everyone will have an easy choice - and until I attended the hustings I was leaning towards spoiling my vote.

I don't know why people seem to assume that women who have women's rights as their main issue are right-wing voters - certainly in my experience it's been a left-wing issue.

Thank you to all those who are patiently explaining the situation - women are reading and the more sunlight the better!

Probably because a lot of right wingers tag onto the movement?

In several countries, gender-critical feminist groups have formed alliances with right-wing, far-right, and anti-feminist organisations.[17][18][19][20]

Um.. Wikipedia is not exactly the most neutral source of information on this topic and the article doesn't exactly read like an unbiasssed source - it starts off with a bald statement "Gender-critical feminism, also known as trans-exclusionary radical feminism or TERFism" and four cites, and no mention that TERF is a slur.

It's all very American ideological. In the UK I wouldn't worry about it.

No mention in the article that in the UK "gender critical" and "transphobic" are increasingly seen as distinct, in law and socially.

I would try not to be too influenced by largely-US websites when making decisions about UK politics.

it does state that TERF is said to be a slur.

i linked it because it has the references in the part i copied. you asked why people thought it was a far right thing and i explained why people feel that.

Correction - the fact that TERF is considered derogatory is mentioned lower down though it hasn't stopped them plastering it all over the page.

i’m not don’t worry! i personally do see the difference between GC and Transphobic behaviour and i call it the transphobia as much as i call out the misogyny from TRA.