FTTC - Will I need to change ISP to get fastest connection?

[nannynick]

FTTC (Fibre to the Cabinet) is coming to my village. The Green Boxes have started to appear and Openreach has Sept 2010 listed as the delivery date.

Currently my ISP is O2/BeUnlimited and I have the upto 8 meg package, though today my download tested at 0.73Mbps.

Once FTTC is available, will my router automatically set itself to support the highest speed it can get - or will I need to do something to make it retest the line?

It depends...

The technology won't change, it will still be ADSL so existing routers will still work.

The 'it depends' part will be whether or not the router can support the highest speed (which I think is 50mbit) - in theory it should as I'm not aware of any ADSL routers that have a speed limit.

MR DC

And you may have to change ISP - depends if your current ISP will support the faster speeds offered by FTTC - my guess is that they will - can't imagine there are many that won't.

O2 seem to offer a Pro package which is upto 40mbps, so changing to that I expect will be necessary if I want more speed. Will wait to see if I get 8mbps first though!

Lucky so-and-so Nick.

I think the highest BT is offering at present is 40 Mbps. When I first went to "up to 8 Mbps" (having moved, I'm getting lower speed downloads than you, at present), I checked the spec for my old Conexant chipset routers (different brands, same chipset) and they claimed 8000 kbps was supported.

However, when I used that on the line, there were disconnections such that up to 4 times a day my connection would drop and the router would take 8 or more goes to reconnect. Switched to a Zyxel router and had no problems, stayed stable for weeks at a time.

I'd therefore suspect that many of the routers currently being sold may claim higher speeds as possible, but under real life conditions, will need some tweeking to make them work reliably.

I'm sure you know this but many ISPs are actually "rebadged" BT so you may find that your existing ISP will start to offer improvements in line with FTTC in your area...

I'd love FTTC to come here - heard about Middlewich, Cheshire, getting it, from a news item on www.ThinkBroadband.com, but while Middlewich serves under 6,000 lines, I'm in N Wales and the main exchange here serves 21,000 and the satellite exchange for several villages serves almost 8,000 lines, yet no news for us - and the 'not-spot' / 'slow-spot' website here shows plenty of people getting poor speeds in my area, compared with few around Middlewich...

There's about 6 km of cable from the exchange, and I have up to 5 days with no voice or broadband at times when it rains... so have Three as backup.

I expect you'll get an "invitation" to upgrade, and perhaps be offered a replacement router known to be suitable. However, if the price is still in the upper end of 35 to 40 pounds a month, and while the speed may be significantly faster, there might be relatively low quantities of data allowed. I know some ISPs are more generous than others, and if you are not stuck with BT providing the link back to ISP data centres, there may be 200-300 GB allowances.

So far, however, companies like Eclipse and Timico have allowances of 10 GB to 60 GB (with pricing in the 30+ area, +VAT so expensive for home users).

I currently get an allowance of 60 GB from Plusnet for under 15 pounds and would not be willing to pay well over double the monthly fee for the extra speed, unless they do what some do, and don't count off-peak traffic.

(Plusnet counts data transfer from 0800 to midnight and allows 60 GB, and doesn't count any 'off-peak' traffic from midnight to 0800, so I could download well over 60 GB if I left PCs on overnight to download iPlayer or other material. As far as power bills are concerned, there are low power PCs using under 75 Watts with the bulk being for the Hard drive!)

Looks like, from the photo in the ThinkBroadband news item that it may be a while before they switch to letting home users get set up by themselves.

The photos suggest the Openreach engineer will replace your Master Socket, and there's a different type of router, by the look of things...

In 2001 our (town) exchange had ADSL and a friend had his connection made by BT (which absorbed the 150 pound fee for engineer install). I went with Freeserve and was one of the triallists of 'wires only' install (though it was a USB modem, and I replaced it in April 2002 with a router for a reliable connection and allowing multiple PCs) Friend was paying BT 39.99/month, which was too much I felt.

Freeserve were charging me 19.99 (there was a mix-up and they charged some end users the same price as people working for DSG in Dixons, PC World, Currys and The Link, and maybe because I signed up in December 2001 before the April launch of wires-only, they assumed I worked for Dixons group, too). FS did eventually work out they were undercharging and it was about the time I was switching ISP to get a 1 Mbps connection, for about 25 quid a month, so I was not unduly concerned about the extra fiver for double the speed...

(Right now there's something up - we started on 500 kbps back in 2001 and right now I've been getting 130 kbps for the last 30 hours.)

Looks like they made this Fibre Survey just for you, Nick !

So not as simple as them putting in the fibre and everything just working faster. Hmm, will have to wait and see what happens.
Many years back I had one of the early wires only installs, as my line failed the engineer install woosh test to their tollerance level.

Engineer install for this new thing sounds costly. Wish it were as simple as Fiber to Cab and then ADSLplus between the Cab and the end user.

Thanks for the info... will have a read of the links.

Actually, Nick, the photos were for fibre to cabinet and copper to the building. My guess is that

a) given these were some of the first trials, in London, and they would be under scrutiny, so wanted no 'egg on face' (eg PR disaster if it didn't work)

b) they may have installed brand new copper and fitted a new type of socket (seems bigger than previous Master Sockets I've seen) but hopefully, longer term, 'regular users' will be sent a box to place over the Master Socket (perhaps higher quality filtering, since they're offering up to 40 Mbps, and news item hints at 100 Mbps later on), and only need to have intervention if the signal attenuation is so high that there's little improvement because of grotty cable from nearest cabinet.

As the crow flies, I'm about 39m from the cabinet, and perhaps 60m via one or other of the two phone poles serving the close. Even if I could only get 7 Mbps or 15 Mbps reliably, I'd be happy, but less so if it costs 40 quid a month!

Looking at bt.com/infinity it shows they charge a 50 pound installation and 19.99 a month for higher speed with 40 GB/month data allowance, and no fee, but 24.99/month for higher speed plus 'unlimited' (yeah, right!) data allowance.

Both of the fibre services (FTTC and FTTH) are under the Infinity umbrella name, and back in January when first launched the announcements said it would be 20 GB not 40 GB, but they must have had someone knock a bit of sense into the marketing people and bean counters, as they'd have been criticised for offering super fast speed but a limited quantity of data.

There are a few ISPs (such as AAISP) which don't count uploaded data (ideal for a radio station or if you wanted to have security camera permanently streaming video out), but even at "up to 8 Mbps" rates someone can download over 10 GB in a day, so it would be easy to hit a 100 GB limit if one wished.

So does that mean that my copper twisted pair will not be connected to the fibre cabinet until I specifically request it (and pay extra)? Would they not be connecting everyone to it... and passing through the signals to the exchange equipment. Then if people wanted they could pay extra to be connected to the digital equipment in the cab.

I don't think I need 20mbps, 40mbps at present. I would be happy with 4mbps - that will stream iplayer without much loss.

Guess I'll have to wait and see what happens in September.

Found more pictures.

Definitely appears at present as if there will be an upgrade charge (Eclipse charge is 75 pounds, but that was on a business section of the website, and might well come down when many more ISPs are able to offer the higher "part fibre, part copper" service).

The cabinet will have the DSLAM fitted, and they will move individual subscribers (at present there are connections off your phone line at the exchange to the DSLAM kit at the exchange, or in your case, to the DSLAM owned/managed by Be as that's your ISP).

I really would hope they could offer 4 and 8 Mbps connections from the cabinet, not just the 15 to 40 Mbps which trefor.net's article suggests. It will be difficult to see how the manifesto promises of higher speeds for all will be achieved, if BT Openreach is setting some arbitrary minimum below which they will 'fail your line' for FTTC access.

Thanks for finding that article.

"I don't think I need 20mbps, 40mbps at present"

Looks like the 19.99 account would serve your needs, albeit they may be a touch (!) more speed than you require.

I found a deal for my sister with Be (7.50 a month for up to 20 Mbps) and her connection was initially around 11 Mbps, so know she will be happy.

I really do think rural users ought to be given priority to 'level the playing field', for business users, home users, and perhaps most important, for education where multiple computers sharing a link must make life extremely frustrating.

While I can stream radio, iPlayer is no good for any TV shows, so I download what I have missed...

Yes would make most sense if they put it in to villages first. Suppose they may be trying to work out likely demand then putting it in to areas where they will get sufficient uptake.
As my villages does not have it's own exchange, yet there are quite a lot of properties in the village now (MaryQOS called it a town) I expect BT feels it's a reasonable bet that they will get customers for the service.

Before the elections I was in touch with the Lib Dems and they might have suggested choosing Market 1 (no competition) exchanges.

However, in my view it should really be down to proportion of users with low speeds or no access at all, where 55 to 65db attenuation is such that they would be "borderline" for getting even 500 kbps in the past (and might still be refused 256k as that was an old option).

If you don't mind checking Nick, can you use SamKnows and do a search for your exchange and post how many lines are served ? Just being nosy, you understand, to see if it's a case of

"commuter belt, fewer homes but may be rich" OK, give them FTTC

"Welsh town, jobless and broke" forget them for X years...

Will do once on a computer, so later today.

Expect - commuter belt, so have the money situation. Given the village is about 24 miles South West of London.

Aha, maybe that 'commuter belt' thing is part of the BT marketing thinking. Maybe they use UpMyStreet for some of the postcodes of people expressing interest in BT Infinity and determine exchange priorities based on the classifications given there - something like:

"These are affluent families, with school age children, enjoying a good lifestyle. Employment is largely in senior managerial and professional occupations, and many of the households in this type have both adults working. Their large detached houses, usually with four or more bedrooms, are mortgaged rather than owned outright."

Amazing what details could be implied from a simple postcode check.

SamKnows: THBA
6,979 residential premises
277 non-residential premises.

Ah... yes, fewer than here, but more than Middlewich and would have to agree that your area would have "commuter belt" written all over, with the M3 and rail too.

A is the Cab, B is the Exchange Google reckons 2.1 miles by road (about 3.4km). 60db line loss, thus expect actual line length is longer though not sure by how much.

Definitely "commuter belt" area, though these days more people do seem to be working nearer to home (I work 8 miles from home).

Lightwater village may have been selected due in part to it not already having Cable (several local towns have Cable - CabelTel, then NTL, now Virgin). Due to there not being competition from Virgin in the village, that may be part of the reason - though Camberley (exchange THC) town is due to have FTTC in December, where there is competition with Virgin.

Currently I pay £7.99 for upto 8Mbps... though don't get that speed... 1Mbps is more usual. Which is far better than 2 years ago, when all I could get was 512kbps. Thinking about it, 5 years ago I was on dial-up, 56kbps... so things have come a long way in the short time period.

AAISP looks quite good - have put in an enquiry with them as they are not wanting much more per month than BT Infinity and from the looks of things AAISP won't limit the service as much as BT might do (Infinity unlimited option has fair usage policy, which I can't seem to work out exactly at what point they restrict the service). AAISP provides 1-hour delayed traffic monitoring reports - a feature I feel may be useful.

Lot more cost than I currently pay O2(Be) but there don't seem to be many FTTC providers as yet.