Plant ID please - is this a dahlia?

[fernsandlilies]

This (in front of the agapanthus leaves) popped up where a dahlia used to be, and at first the foliage looked very dahlia-like, so I hoped perhaps I hadn't lost it after all. But now I'm not so sure..

This did not die back last winter, which is unusual but not impossible, as we're in a mild area. The stem is quite stiff and has gone a sort of grey colour with little red nodes - it really is starting to look like a tree sapling, isn't it? There are no flower buds, but I gather lots of dahlias haven't flowered this year.

I can't remember what the dahlia was - I think it might have been 'David Howard', which has dark foliage, and that rules it out.

This looks like an elder sapling to me?

See elder example attached

Yes, elder. Do you see the way the leaves come off in pairs opposite each other on the stem? You can see it easily on curls’s pic - a leaf with 6 leaflets, then opposite it the start of another leaf. You can see the same on yours….. ah that doesn’t help, Dahlia has opposite leaves too…

Right - the lower leaflets of dahlia tend to taper in to their stems, the teeth are larger, and the secondary veins are very uniform parallel lines leading to the teeth. It’s probably the fineness of the teeth which is the biggest giveaway.

It can be really hard recognising something from it’s overall look or “jizz” and trying to break it down into precise features. Like trying to explain over the phone to some which of two photos they’re holding (and which you can’t see) is Angela Merkel and which is Nicola Sturgeon

I think you are both right. Thank you. Ah well, out it comes, and that makes room for something new.

" Like trying to explain over the phone to some which of two photos they’re holding (and which you can’t see) is Angela Merkel and which is Nicola Sturgeon " - I love this !!

Yes, it's elder. Dig it up quick, otherwise it will be impossible to get rid of. There's one in my front garden that's particularly stubborn and I've been attacking it for years.