A levels or BTECs for sport-related university courses after Year 11?

[mrsconradfisher]

A levels or BTECS?

I have 2 sons, 1 is at a top uni for his subject, did 3 A-levels and got A star A A grades. He’s at Loughborough doing Sports Science.

DS2 is currently in Year 11, has the option of a fully BTEC level 3 Sport course but it’s a nightmare to get to due to our location. Would involve a 1.5 hour bus journey each way.
He wants to stay at his current school to go to 6th form. He is far less academic than DS1 but far more able in some areas, he seems to have a natural ability for coaching and is a very talented sportsman. Plan was always A-Level PE and 2 other subjects however his 6th form have stopped PE and replaced it with a Cambridge Technical PE and Sport qualification.
Been to open evening and he has found 3 separate BTEC equivalent qualifications he would like to do, Cambridge technical PE, Medical Science and Business. Each equivalent to an A-Level. Those sort of courses seem to suit him really well and my gut instinct is for him to just do whatever he wants but then there is this nagging voice that keeps saying, that’s a random mix of subjects, he’ll never get into Uni with those and he needs A-Levels.

In terms of Uni, he is thinking along the lines of either sports therapy, coaching or PE teaching. He definitely won’t be aiming for Loughborough (as an example) but wants to go to Uni.
We have looked at countless degree courses and my head is spinning so just wondered if anyone had any thoughts?

Hey there @mrsconradfisher i remember your threads and hope DS is doing well at Luffers.

Your ds2 can for sure go to uni with those sorts of quals, as you will know if you have looked. Are they the kinds of courses in the kinds of unis he would enjoy and do well at?

The commute to the L3 Btec sounds challenging. Would that be every day? Does he want to do it?

The subjects you suggest sound fine to me. What does he ultimately want to do and would this take him there? What A levels would he do? What grades is he looking at in those GCSEs? The Cambs technicals may suit him much better. All the best to him.

Thank you, yes he is absolutely loving Loughborough! Now going into 3rd year, coaching one of the AU teams and also got a job at a football club.

We have looked at so many courses but all the vocational qualifications are hidden right at the bottom of the grade requirements and most want a full Level 3 BTEC or a BTEC plus A-Level rather then 3 separate vocational qualification if that makes sense?

He is so different from DS1, wants to work in sport but in a different way. His ideal job would be a sports physio but obviously physio itself is super competitive so he was looking at Sports therapy or sports coaching.

The Level 3 BTEC is at a college 25 miles away, only bus there is at 7am, it goes around every village and arrives at 8.30am. As far as I know it’s every day. It’s about a 40 min drive but I can’t get him there, I work in a school so absolutely impossible.

What is random about those subjects? One in his passion, one directly related to the science and one to the business? It's almost tailor-made to match whilst ensuring he has broad transferable skills.

An hour and a half on the bus may be doable. Might not have to be in every day. Could get some work done on the bus. If he can crack on with driving and have access to a car, the second year will be easier.

But the big plus side to the three qualifications is keeping options open.

I wouldn’t fret about lack of a levels as it doesn’t sound like he’ll be heading for trad academic subjects. These subjects are a good fit for his destination and suit a BTEC/applied format better.

That kind of commute for yrs12-13 isn't unusual where my kids grew up (Norfolk).

I think he should go with his gut feeling tells him he'd like.

It’s clearly a Norfolk thing as that’s exactly where we live! We are in South Norfolk, virtually on the border with Suffolk. His options for the Level 3 are West Suffolk (Bury) or Easton. West Suffolk is easier to get to but a long bus ride, Easton involves trains and a bus which is doable but it relies on everything turning up exactly on time!
He is Autistic(although very high functioning) and is worrying about being late etc.

I think the issue you are coming up against is the science content of the L3 qualifications. For a sports science course many unis will want to guarantee sufficient pre-university science content . They will often do this by specifying large (3 a level worth BTECs/CTECs) that they know cover the scientific content they want or requiring BTECs/CTECs + a science/science related A level. You have to be very careful looking at the requirements because they often specify named vocational courses & related specifications may not be accepted. Sports coaching/development are often more flexible because the scientific content is less. For example Man Met would accept the 3 single unit BTECs for coaching and development but not for sports science.
If he wants to keep sports science open at multiple unis he will need either the large level 3 at the more distant college (if it is an acceptable specification) or swap out 1 BTEC/CTEC for a science-related A level. If he is happy for coaching/development type degrees the 3 single unit vocational qualifications would work.
I would keep researching unis. Apply to both the school and college and make final decisions come results day.

That’s a really good way of looking at it. In my head, it’s random as DS1 did A-Levels specifically relating to his subject at Uni whereas I feel DS2 is trying to find a Uni course to fit round his subjects rather than the other way around.

He’s actually quite bright, predicted a Distinction Star in the BTEC he is currently doing as 1 of his GCSE’s but is not a massive fan of exams so I think this route would definitely suit him!

Yes, that’s exactly the issue. DS1 is doing Sport Science and even with A-Levels has found parts tough going so I know that DS2 wouldn’t be able to do that. He definitely wants to work in sport, just a different avenue.

The other thing i would consider is whether an A level + 2 vocational qualifications is suitable. DS2 may not be as good at exams as DS1, but would one science-related A level be appropriate? I dont know obviously, but it is something to consider. If it isnt then it can be taken off the table. However, if it was it could open up more options without the stresses if lengthy commute & new environment.

Sorry - crossed posts. Definetely not pushing for an A level if that wouldnt eork for DS2.

A couple of things to consider. Which options do the various schools / colleges teach? The options are optional to the education provider not the student.

My subject is BTEC Health and Social Care, most students are heading for nursing. One unit I have taught a lot (supply teacher) is Anatomy and Physiology, if a student doesn't take that unit then most universities specify they need a biology A Level as well.

Another thing is 'contact hours' the journey might be 1.5 hours but would he be in every day? Some colleges do a 9-5 with supervised study sessions, others you just have to attend your actual lessons, and some even do virtual lessons.

No college will tell you this but sometimes a unit from one BTEC can be transferred to another.

I would say whatever he wants to do make sure their is an Anatomy and Physiology unit (it might be called Human Biology), I know the one for sports is similar to the H and SC one.

Good posts from @Owlbookend – I was looking in the same direction.

Plenty of unis do not want at least one A level as well? He would surely be better off looking at post-92 unis like Leeds Beckett, NTU, UWE, Man Met; or less popular unis like Leicester, Swansea, Keele. All of those will accept him for certain courses at least if he gets good enough grades.

What kinds of GCSE grades is he looking at? If it’s 4/5/6 then those are great but probably not ideal for A-level>Warwick uni. Much better to take courses that engage you that you will do well in. Nothing at all wrong with the unis I have named. I can think of a number of YP who have done very well at them in a range of courses.

For example – BSc applied sports studies at Leeds Beckett https://www.leedsbeckett.ac.uk/courses/applied-sports-studies-bsc/ wants 104 UCAS points which would be DMM in three Cambs technicals. Is that feasible?

Sports and exercise science at Swansea wants 120 UCAS points which would be DDM. https://www.swansea.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/engineering-applied-sciences/bsc-sports-exercise-science/#bbq=on

Sports coaching and development at Man Met wants 112 UCAS points https://www.mmu.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/course/bsc-sport-coaching-and-development

ETA: The LBU course for example says the points can certainly come from separate Cambs technicals and doesn't specify what subjects as far as I can see. In any case the subjects suggested would be ideal.

Look at the entry requirements for the courses he may be interested in at university. My son did Btec sport plus 2 A levels but some higher ranking universities didn't seem to allow a combination of separate BTEC's.

My son wasn't looking at Sport degrees though.

He found the single BTEC he did much easier than A level and did it in 9 months and got a distinction.

Most of his friends who did Btecs got distinction's or higher whilst those who did A levels with similar GCSE grades mainly got B's and C's and therefore found it harder to get into higher ranking universities.

Thanks, yes it’s likely to be around 4/5/6 apart from PE which is looking more like 8/9.

He is doing combined science, the Biology part is great but the physics/chemistry is bringing the overall grades down so they won’t let him do Biology A-Level. He was going to do PE A-Level which ticks the science A-Level box for Uni applications but they are no longer running it and have changed it to the PE Technical qualification.
My gut feeling is for him to just do the 3 subjects he wants and will do well in, I suspect he would get DDM perhaps. I just didn’t want to advise him of that if it would prevent him actually getting onto a Uni course as all my experience so far has been with A-Levels.

I know that the Level 3 BTEC is fine for Uni applications but it’s was more the 3 separate ones which I thought might be an issue,

We will spend more time going through potential courses and looking at the specific modules for the Cambridge technicals. I suspect that might be the issue as from we were told last night there isn’t much anatomy/physiology on there but I assume it’s because they haven’t chosen those modules.

Thank you. As far as I know it’s 5 days a week, 3 days in College and 2 days practical but in virtually the same location.

That’s a really good point about the specific modules, I will look into that further. I suspect that might be the sticking point as don’t think there was much anatomy and physiology in what we were shown.But will get him to speak to his teacher to confirm.

BTW if he needs any help with A and P let me know. I have a lot of free time.

Also I do know ow the difference between there, their and they're. I just answered before breakfast.

My school, too, has axed PE. I wouldn't do all 3 of those in combo tbh. Based on my experiences of teaching students who do two of them alongside an A level , which might colour my perceptions, admittedly.

I'd go sport, med sci and something else , such as biology .

Or, indeed, sociology, maybe psychology.

That’s interesting @Piggywaspushed why is that? I mean why not three Cambs techs, not why have they axed PE!

I was thinking maybe psych A level actually. Would that be possible @mrsconradfisher?

I would suggest emailing (ds not you) admissions at some possible unis to see if three Cambs techs would be acceptable. I mean my reading of the ones I linked is that they would, but it’s good to clarify.

Could you ask for the breakdown of science grades - if his bio element (I mean next August) is 7 then A level should be ok?

Shame about A level PE. Ds2 took it and found it was not offered at many local schools. (Luckily his did it)

Yes either Sociology or Psychology were the A-levels he was considering. Leaning more towards Sociology as DS1 did Psychology and I ended up having to get a tutor as the teacher was off for a year. The teacher is the same teacher so I’m slightly concerned at having to get a tutor again. But he’s really enjoy Psychology.

Good idea about asking for a breakdown of science grades.

It's a work ethic thing that can develop, but also a lot of coursework. Obviously, lots of the kids are committed, but there can be a groundswell. Three vocational subjects is a lot, and I can't see what the business is contributing in this particular case.

That’s a fair comment about the course work and I said exactly the same to DS last night.

He does however have an excellent work ethic, has been revising daily over the summer holidays, done multiple past papers, asked for more work from teachers etc, completes work on early and to a decent standard. So I know with subjects he wants to do that will continue.

I admit that Business is the outlier, I think he’s drawn to it because it’s the most popular course at his school. The whole 6th form is based on charity work ran by the Business students from the start of Y12 and they raise money for a local hospice which is very close to our hearts. So all events etc are purely run by the business students…there is also an annual trip to New York which I suspect is also part of the draw!!

Will investigate sociology and psychology some more as I agree they work well if he can’t do Biology.

Just another point, psychology and sociology are both essay subjects so might take more time for homework than he thinks.

The other thing is that BTEC and probably CTEC are usually finished long before A Levels so he would get time for revision.

That’s a really good point about them finishing early, hadn’t even considered that.