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Feminism: chat

Did poet Ted Hughes’s deserve the hate?

224 replies

6ate9 · 15/07/2026 15:57

Ted Hughes faced immense backlash from the feminist movement following Sylvia Plath's suicide in 1963 and Assia Wevill's suicide in 1969.

Do you think he deserved it? I’m asking because someone was taking to me about this and she thought he did, while I didn’t think he deserved all the vitriol which at times included death threats, physical attacks on his property, and being branded a murderer.

I felt very sorry for his children Frieda and Nicholas, as they both suffered and Nicholas later died by suicide, and Shura, who was murdered by her mother Assia Wevill at age 4.

OP posts:
6ate9 · 16/07/2026 18:01

JJkate · 16/07/2026 17:45

But we do. There's lots of written evidence from her and records of people who were there who have gone on to tell what they saw.

There is only documented evidence from
Sylvia Plath, mainly confidential letters written to her psychiatrist, Dr. Ruth Barnhouse, shortly before her death.
(I’m not saying TH didn’t abuse SP.)

OP posts:
Uricon2 · 16/07/2026 18:07

I think TH as a man considered attractive, charismatic and hugely talented got more of a pass than eg Philip Larkin has had for his misdemeanours. I don't like much of either his or SP's work, as Poet Laureate he wrote risible junk (IMO) and was far too keen on his official status as Friend of the Royals (for whom he wrote even worse poetry, frankly embarrassing)

Who knows what his real motivation was with Birthday Letters, but there are many things he could have done to 'protect' his children without destroying things by SP that could have eg been archived with a timelock. I think he was probably trying to protect his reputation longterm.

SuperGinger · 16/07/2026 18:18

I heard from a friend of mother's who knew him that while he was a great poet he was known to be very boorish. She said at university he would run up to doors while drunk, and lift them off their hinges and bellow so people inside were left feeling uncomfortable.

He cannot be blamed entirely for what happened to those around him but often complex brilliant individuals are drawn to people who are not right for them and it means the cycle of chaos continues for generations.

angieloumc · 16/07/2026 18:22

6ate9 · 16/07/2026 18:01

There is only documented evidence from
Sylvia Plath, mainly confidential letters written to her psychiatrist, Dr. Ruth Barnhouse, shortly before her death.
(I’m not saying TH didn’t abuse SP.)

‘Only’ documented evidence? Surely these highly private letters she wrote in fact do point to the fact that he did abuse her and was very very cruel.

6ate9 · 16/07/2026 18:44

angieloumc · 16/07/2026 18:22

‘Only’ documented evidence? Surely these highly private letters she wrote in fact do point to the fact that he did abuse her and was very very cruel.

SP and her relationship with her psychiatrist was unethical by today’s standards. They formed a very close bond which crossed professional boundaries.

OP posts:
angieloumc · 16/07/2026 19:23

6ate9 · 16/07/2026 18:44

SP and her relationship with her psychiatrist was unethical by today’s standards. They formed a very close bond which crossed professional boundaries.

Like I said to you before I wrote my thesis on Plath, so no need to tell me little snippets you’ve clearly read somewhere that’s pro Hughes. Things have fortunately moved on in psychiatry since those days.

6ate9 · 16/07/2026 19:30

angieloumc · 16/07/2026 19:23

Like I said to you before I wrote my thesis on Plath, so no need to tell me little snippets you’ve clearly read somewhere that’s pro Hughes. Things have fortunately moved on in psychiatry since those days.

I have not claimed I’m pro Hughes. I do think the public hatred was awful and caused immense suffering to his two children. I do not condone abuse in any form.

OP posts:
Uricon2 · 16/07/2026 19:37

6ate9 · 16/07/2026 19:30

I have not claimed I’m pro Hughes. I do think the public hatred was awful and caused immense suffering to his two children. I do not condone abuse in any form.

@6ate9 let's be fair, the public hatred you're talking about was pretty limited in scope and certainly didn't stop him becoming Poet Laureate.

I can imagine the children were indeed damaged by a series of factors, not least the suicide of their mother, but it was hardly as if he was being stoned in the street.

6ate9 · 16/07/2026 19:43

Uricon2 · 16/07/2026 19:37

@6ate9 let's be fair, the public hatred you're talking about was pretty limited in scope and certainly didn't stop him becoming Poet Laureate.

I can imagine the children were indeed damaged by a series of factors, not least the suicide of their mother, but it was hardly as if he was being stoned in the street.

I imagine the public vandalising SP’s gravestone and brandishing TH as a murderer was pretty upsetting!!

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TheStoneGladioli · 16/07/2026 20:47

6ate9 · 16/07/2026 14:09

Assia Wevill was concerned no one would look after Shura.

”And I couldn’t leave little Shura by herself. She’s too old to be adopted.” (A Lover of Unreason)

Ah yes. “I had to murder my child as they would have no life without me”

Said by family annihilators suicides the world over.

The level of excusing/downplay/ignoring of child murder on this thread is frankly sickening. Very few posters except you OP have even mentioned the murder of Shura Weevil, and now here you are “explaining” why her mother had no choice.

There is no excuse for child murder, whether it’s done by men or women.

TheStoneGladioli · 16/07/2026 20:55

OtterlyAstounding · 16/07/2026 15:06

In fact, it seems that he was such a negligent father that AW believed (rightly or wrongly) that he wouldn't care for their daughter after her death by suicide.

He seems like any other coercive, violent abusive man, who picks on unstable women because they make easy prey. I'm not sure why anyone would try to defend him.

You seem to be excusing the murder of a child.

Believing that the other parent is not fit to care for your child if you take your own life is not a reason/excuse to murder the child.

6ate9 · 16/07/2026 21:02

TheStoneGladioli · 16/07/2026 20:47

Ah yes. “I had to murder my child as they would have no life without me”

Said by family annihilators suicides the world over.

The level of excusing/downplay/ignoring of child murder on this thread is frankly sickening. Very few posters except you OP have even mentioned the murder of Shura Weevil, and now here you are “explaining” why her mother had no choice.

There is no excuse for child murder, whether it’s done by men or women.

I am NOT condoning child murder!!! I was giving the reason why Assia Wevill chose to kill her daughter.

OP posts:
6ate9 · 16/07/2026 21:11

@TheStoneGladioli You really have jumped to conclusions!! I don’t condone any form of abuse or murder!!!

OP posts:
Chickadeeinme · 16/07/2026 21:11

OtterlyAstounding · 16/07/2026 15:17

Right, so you're not defending the man, or his behaviour, but rather...him as a poet? So, his literary works? What specifically, in regards to his poetry, are you defending him from?

I think his poetry has a value that is not eclipsed or removed by his shitty behaviour.

AlteFrau · 16/07/2026 21:54

Full Moon and Little Frieda

A cool small evening shrunk to a dog bark and the clank of a bucket -
And you listening.
A spider's web, tense for the dew's touch.
A pail lifted, still and brimming - mirror
To tempt a first star to a tremor.

Cows are going home in the lane there, looping the hedges with their warm
wreaths of breath -
A dark river of blood, many boulders,
Balancing unspilled milk.
'Moon!' you cry suddenly, 'Moon! Moon!'

The moon has stepped back like an artist gazing amazed at a work
That points at him amazed.

TheStoneGladioli · 16/07/2026 22:01

6ate9 · 16/07/2026 21:02

I am NOT condoning child murder!!! I was giving the reason why Assia Wevill chose to kill her daughter.

Edited

I did not say that you condone murder and don’t for a moment believe that you do. But you are “explaining” it, and stating AW’s “reason” 1) as if you can know whether she was telling the truth about her motivations and 2) attaching blame to TH for the murder of his child when the blame attaches to the murderer.

Family annihilators often cite either the failings of the other parent or their belief that their children would be better off dead without them. I’m very uncomfortable that because AW was a woman (at least I presume that’s the reason) her murder of her daughter is being discussed with a level of sympathy/understanding which would not usually be given to family murder suicide perpetrators.

CypressMoon · 16/07/2026 22:08

AlteFrau · 16/07/2026 21:54

Full Moon and Little Frieda

A cool small evening shrunk to a dog bark and the clank of a bucket -
And you listening.
A spider's web, tense for the dew's touch.
A pail lifted, still and brimming - mirror
To tempt a first star to a tremor.

Cows are going home in the lane there, looping the hedges with their warm
wreaths of breath -
A dark river of blood, many boulders,
Balancing unspilled milk.
'Moon!' you cry suddenly, 'Moon! Moon!'

The moon has stepped back like an artist gazing amazed at a work
That points at him amazed.

That is lovely. Ah well. At least the grim, violent, egotistical letch was good at something.

OtterlyAstounding · 17/07/2026 00:45

TheStoneGladioli · 16/07/2026 20:55

You seem to be excusing the murder of a child.

Believing that the other parent is not fit to care for your child if you take your own life is not a reason/excuse to murder the child.

I'm not defending her at all. That's an unthinkable, hideous thing to do, as I've explicitly said. I'm just passing comment on what she must have thought of his parenting.

OtterlyAstounding · 17/07/2026 00:51

Chickadeeinme · 16/07/2026 21:11

I think his poetry has a value that is not eclipsed or removed by his shitty behaviour.

And what does his poetry have to do with this thread? Have people been arguing that his poetry is bad? Or just pointing out that he was abusive and cruel to his wife and affair partners, regardless of whether or not he was a good poet?

Although personally, I find his poetry to be – like most poetry – a trite and self-indulgent nonsense of pretty descriptors that use abstraction to pretend at depth. I prefer novels.

That's entirely separate to him being abusive, however.

FennelSnack · 17/07/2026 01:01

Ted Hughes sounds to have been an absolute shit. However, I think framing the suicides of Sylvia Plath and Assia Wevill purely in terms of his behaviour does all three of them a disservice. Both Plath and Wevill were complex and unhappy women, long before they met Hughes. They have their own stories that are much more complex and personal than just “married to a shitty man”.

Hughes I suspect was attracted to damaged and complicated women for whatever reason. That doesn’t excuse his behaviour but equally simply blaming him is reductive and denies Plath and Wevill agency and personality.

Chickadeeinme · 17/07/2026 02:18

Although personally, I find his poetry to be – like most poetry – a trite and self-indulgent nonsense of pretty descriptors that use abstraction to pretend at depth.

Ah well that tells me how to evaluate your responses to it. Especially if you think Hughes' poetry uses abstraction.

Wind

Ted Hughes

This house has been far out at sea all night,
The woods crashing through darkness, the booming hills,
Winds stampeding the fields under the window
Floundering black astride and blinding wet

Till day rose; then under an orange sky
The hills had new places, and wind wielded
Blade-light, luminous black and emerald,
Flexing like the lens of a mad eye.

At noon I scaled along the house-side as far as
The coal-house door. Once I looked up -
Through the brunt wind that dented the balls of my eyes
The tent of the hills drummed and strained its guyrope,

The fields quivering, the skyline a grimace,
At any second to bang and vanish with a flap;
The wind flung a magpie away and a black-
Back gull bent like an iron bar slowly. The house

Rang like some fine green goblet in the note
That any second would shatter it. Now deep
In chairs, in front of the great fire, we grip
Our hearts and cannot entertain book, thought,

Or each other. We watch the fire blazing,
And feel the roots of the house move, but sit on,
Seeing the window tremble to come in,
Hearing the stones cry out under the horizons.

OtterlyAstounding · 17/07/2026 02:28

Chickadeeinme · 17/07/2026 02:18

Although personally, I find his poetry to be – like most poetry – a trite and self-indulgent nonsense of pretty descriptors that use abstraction to pretend at depth.

Ah well that tells me how to evaluate your responses to it. Especially if you think Hughes' poetry uses abstraction.

Wind

Ted Hughes

This house has been far out at sea all night,
The woods crashing through darkness, the booming hills,
Winds stampeding the fields under the window
Floundering black astride and blinding wet

Till day rose; then under an orange sky
The hills had new places, and wind wielded
Blade-light, luminous black and emerald,
Flexing like the lens of a mad eye.

At noon I scaled along the house-side as far as
The coal-house door. Once I looked up -
Through the brunt wind that dented the balls of my eyes
The tent of the hills drummed and strained its guyrope,

The fields quivering, the skyline a grimace,
At any second to bang and vanish with a flap;
The wind flung a magpie away and a black-
Back gull bent like an iron bar slowly. The house

Rang like some fine green goblet in the note
That any second would shatter it. Now deep
In chairs, in front of the great fire, we grip
Our hearts and cannot entertain book, thought,

Or each other. We watch the fire blazing,
And feel the roots of the house move, but sit on,
Seeing the window tremble to come in,
Hearing the stones cry out under the horizons.

As I said, as an adult I find most poetry to be a self-indulgent, shallow prettiness (as an overwrought teenager, I loved it, admittedly).

But why would you need to evaluate my responses to his poetry? His poetry isn't what's up for debate here – the fact that he was an abusive wife-beater is the issue at hand.

Really, all my disinterest in his poetry means is that I'm not influenced and biassed to want to defend his character, due to admiring his work. To me, he's no different to any other abusive man.

How exactly is his literary work relevant? Why do you keep pushing it?

Chickadeeinme · 17/07/2026 02:54

I don't know why you're pushing this. Nobody is arguing that he wasn't abusive. Literally my only point is that, as I said upthread, his poetry has a value that is not eclipsed or removed by his shitty behaviour. However, since you apparently think poetry has no importance or value beyond self-indulgence and prettiness I can see why that might seem unimportant to you in comparison. I shan't respond any more to you directly on this issue because I think we're just talking at cross-purposes.

OtterlyAstounding · 17/07/2026 03:09

Chickadeeinme · 17/07/2026 02:54

I don't know why you're pushing this. Nobody is arguing that he wasn't abusive. Literally my only point is that, as I said upthread, his poetry has a value that is not eclipsed or removed by his shitty behaviour. However, since you apparently think poetry has no importance or value beyond self-indulgence and prettiness I can see why that might seem unimportant to you in comparison. I shan't respond any more to you directly on this issue because I think we're just talking at cross-purposes.

You're the one who started a discussion with me, by saying:

I'm not defending the man or his behaviour. I'm defending a poet whose work I think will be around and influential for a long time. These two are not the same thing. I specifically criticised his behaviour over Plath's literary legacy.

So I wasn't pushing anything on you – I dont think I'd made a single comment to you until you quoted me, and said the above. And I still fail to see how his poetry is relevant in any way whatsoever.

I also don't know how you can defend "a poet" but simultaneously say you're not defending "the man". The poet is the man. So what's your point? That you think he wrote good poetry? Well, fine, but what's that got to do with the way he treated the women in his life? How is that relevant to this thread and topic?

Myfluffyblanket · 17/07/2026 03:27

Entangledlife · 15/07/2026 22:33

I would love to hear more. Would you consider starting a thread? I don't want to derail but would be fascinating to hear your thoughts

Me too. Please start a Plath and Hughes thread.

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