Mansplaining pregnancy / postpartum fitness

[Pitavina]

I ‘follow’ a male friend on social media who is a fitness instructor and lately he has been spouting loads of generic post partum / pregnancy fitness advice that is really jarring with me. I feel like pregnancy and pregnancy recovery is such a unique and individual experience and also an exclusively female experience and seeing a man ‘advising’ women on what they should and shouldn’t be doing doesn’t sit right. Seeing posts like “pm me for details on what you should be doing to get your bod back in the immediate postpartum period” have given me the rage!

I don’t know if I’m being unreasonable. I’ve had very difficult pregnancies, births and post partum recoveries and I am currently really unhappy with how I feel in my own skin. I’m not sure if my issue is with a man purporting to be the authority on this uniquely female experience or whether the issue is actually that I’m unhappy with myself.

I do have a massive problem with bounce back culture and with societal pressure generally on women during pregnancy and postpartum. But again, I wonder to what extent that just me being unhappy with me.

Am I right in thinking it’s not a man’s place to hand out this kind of advice?

I used to run classes for women wanting to get their pelvic floor back, to sort out divarication. I always felt a bit out of place, I've never given birth. But I could at least relate to the specific body parts and issues that their 'laxity' could cause.

I wonder of today's modern young mum feels that she should be able to discuss this with a modern young male instructor? Or if the sex of the instructor doesn't register?

The PMing would freak me out, I have to admit!

@Pitavina

I'm sorry to hear you've had tough pregnancies/births and postpartum experiences. I'm currently pregnant (and so far fortunately haven't experienced any difficulties) - just luck as I'm not doing anything special.

I don't know how I feel about it (a man giving advice) I see where you're coming from though at the same time. I guess it's a 'service' like any other - I'm liking it to cosmetic surgery - any body enhancement advertising regardless of who is behind he advertising (man or a woman). It does imply we ought to 'look after ourselves'

@HoardingSamphireSaurus

I think I'd be interested to see the programme (again regardless of who is running the class)...pregnancy is such a shock to the system/body and I do wonder how I'm going to feel afterwards about myself (confidence and self-esteem in general).

My issue would be with the regular discussions of such an intimate nature. I'd wonder if all women joining that specific class would feel about bringing up some of the matters I've had discussed during such classes.

I can't help think it would make a difference in what the clients raised.

That's also why I only facilitated the Check Your Tackle sessions, got male nurses in to run the sessions. I was open to the idea that discussing their gonads with women might repress some of the conversations some men wanted to have.

I think I would mind if it was someone qualified offering a service - eg a male gyneocologist or obstetrician, or even a male physiotherapist specialising in women’s health. It’s the fact that it’s a man who has set himself up as a personal trainer essentially perpetuating the whole bounce back culture, telling women how the will feel post partum and what the experience will be like. It’s giving me the rage!

I loathe the idea of getting your body back. It's so misogynistic. My body produced an entire human being. From scratch. Surely we should be celebrating that a touch more than a flat stomach and perky breasts.

Spam him with penis enhancement ads. Only joking sort of.

My older two children are boys (9 and 7) and I could tell that they were losing a bit of respect for me in this latest pregnancy because I was so ill and I couldn’t walk far and then even after the birth they couldn’t understand why I still had a massive bump. I’ve made sure to explain to them what an incredible job my body was doing which explains why it didn’t have the energy left to do all the normal things people who aren’t making a baby can do. It was really important to me that they grow up to appreciate what an incredible thing that women’s bodies do.

I can’t put my finger on what is bothering me exactly about this personal trainer, but there is something. I’m pretty sure it’s the mansplaining and the attitude that all women could bounce back if only they put in the effort. Which of course isn’t true - it’s largely out of our control, a mixture of genetics and luck.

@MrsTerryPratchett totally agree!

The concept that women should spring back to their pre-pregnancy body after having a baby is not only damaging but deeply, deeply, misogynistic. Your mate is a prick taking advantage of women who will no doubt be feeling low and will have had their self esteem knocked

@MrsTerryPratchett

I loathe the idea of getting your body back. It's so misogynistic. My body produced an entire human being. From scratch. Surely we should be celebrating that a touch more than a flat stomach and perky breasts.

Spam him with penis enhancement ads. Only joking sort of.

This is why I love you @MrsTerryPratchett

This takes me back to the sheer horror of having to explain to my male PT that the reason I was refusing point blank to do skipping or box jumps was not a lack of fitness or grit and determination but the very real prospect that I would piss myself.
It really had not occurred to him that might be the reason
It was very embarrassing all round.
It better now but for quite a while any jumping would result in major leakage.
I don't think most men get that.

@YourFinestPantaloons

He sounds like an ego-driven prat. Can you mute him on social media OP and focus on doing the things you enjoy?

I don’t think most women get it either. Not those who’ve not experienced it. I’m not saying I was totally in the dark but I was definitely well into adulthood and considering children before I found out about about the basics of pregnancy and childbirth. You know like lochia. The reality is that the gp won’t see you for some PP concerns until you’re six months to a year PP. My body is a wreck. I had an easy labour and birth but weight loss is the least of my concerns.

@MrsTerryPratchett

I loathe the idea of getting your body back. It's so misogynistic. My body produced an entire human being. From scratch. Surely we should be celebrating that a touch more than a flat stomach and perky breasts.

Spam him with penis enhancement ads. Only joking sort of.

I'm a afraid I feel the exact opposite. I absolutely fucking loathe the whole 'body positivity' live with your utterly changed and damaged body forever, shit that I feel made me utterly unnecessarily miserable about my body for 7 years. It made me sad, really constantly background sad and made me feel utterly disconnected from the potential for joy that my body has. We can complain about 'bounce back' culture but the reality is, that's just a small part of it, the vast majority of our culture tells us our bodies are forever damaged by pregnancy and giving birth and we should just be happy about that damage. Almost every women I know constantly posts these fucking, love your tiger stripes type posts and the reality is they make most women feel helpless and miserable.

The reality is, some women won't actually have any notable postpartum damage. While some women will suffer injuries that will lead to need for corrective medical intervention or lifelong health complications. And most of us will have degrees of damage that will change us a little bit and require a certain amount of adaptations in how we feel about ourselves or practical adaptations for certain activities. But overall, we are left with the capacity to be just as fit and strong as ever. Or maybe fitter and stronger than we ever were, if we weren't fit and strong pre-pregnancy. But when we are told, we're damaged and should learn to love it because it means we made a person/people. Then we lose agency, exacerbate our health problems, increase our likelihood of ongoing weight gain that has fuck all to do with the fact we had children. Massively increase our likelihood of greatly decreased bone health post menopause. Increase the likelihood of misdiagnosing other illnesses that might arise. Lose out on the natural endorphins that come with regular exercise and the joy of physical achievement. And yes, feel worse about how we look because it's actually normal, really normal, to want to your body to look fit and healthy.

I have quite a lot of permanent pregnancy damage. I'm a tiny person who had a giant baby by EMCS. It's mainly cosmetic but some of it affects me physically too. It made me so miserable that I stopped caring about my body and I was physically old before my time. I'd stop myself and lose weight but even slim hated how my belly looked, so I'd just stop caring and let the weight pile back on. By chance I found a physical activity that I loved and was surprisingly good at during one of the times my weight was down. I became athletically fit and muscular and the appearance of my belly area changed entirely. I still have lots of physical damage that I'd obviously magic away if that was an option but it's no longer the first thing I see because my lifestyle shows on my body too.

So while obviously new mothers should be afforded the physical and mental time and space to relax and recover. It should also be made really clear that for most of us, there are still decades of amazing physical wellbeing ahead of us. Growing and delivering a human may well have changed us but it hasn't necessarily lessened us. We don't have to console ourselves that the damage was left because we did something amazing. We still have so much physical amazing left to revel in.

And it's perfectly possible that a man can understand, in his professional capacity as a trainer, how to help women postpartum. He may be talking shit. Or he may have specifically studied this area and has learned how to help women through a myriad of individual health concerns. I have experience with men who have been able to advise me well and women who haven't even being able to fathom what I'm talking about when I ask for advice.

Has he actually got any medical qualifications, or just a general fitness trainer?

A man used to run the local post natal fitness class, but he was a physiotherapist as well as a fitness trainer (and had a baby and a toddler so had some understanding of the childcare bit)

trancepants

I don’t think that being fit/healthy and looking good aesthetically speaking are one in the same though. The first is very important and should be taken seriously. The second might be important for self esteem, but plenty of people don’t have ‘perfect’ bodies and are still very happy with themselves. I think that should be encouraged.

The whole bounce back thing seems very looks based to me.

Yanbu op. The emphasis on the "bounce back to pre pregnancy bod" put me off for YEARS finding out what actually needed to heal etc - I was a bit ignorant as I didn't have any obvious issues, support and info on Diastasis Recti etc was very very minimal.

I think it's really important to get good info and support on this without making it seem about being thin etc.

I have since found excellent resources but this was off my own bat. I have no issues with men doing this if they're qualified obviously, but just sticking his oar in with no education or experience is spectacularly unhelpful.

Almost every women I know constantly posts these fucking, love your tiger stripes type posts and the reality is they make most women feel helpless and miserable.

I do feel for you but tiger stripes are about stretch marks aren't they? I wouldn't assume if someone posts that they are also saying you should just accept and live with any actual damage to your body.

Most of the resources I've found (mutu etc) are very clear that you should NOT accept leaking urine, a damaged core, etc. But as I said, I've had to look these up myself.

I think its likely he only talks to women who are 'easy' cases; so is reinforcing his own beliefs.

@MonsignorMirth

Almost every women I know constantly posts these fucking, love your tiger stripes type posts and the reality is they make most women feel helpless and miserable.

I do feel for you but tiger stripes are about stretch marks aren't they? I wouldn't assume if someone posts that they are also saying you should just accept and live with any actual damage to your body.

Most of the resources I've found (mutu etc) are very clear that you should NOT accept leaking urine, a damaged core, etc. But as I said, I've had to look these up myself.

Tiger stripes are supposedly about stretchmarks. But often when you read what's actually written under the twee heading. It's not about the stretchmarks, puckered skin and muscle damage. It's about acceptance through helplessness and disempowerment. They are overweight and obese bodies. I have stretchmarks, puckered, excess skin. I have uneven fat distribution that collects over my section scar, even with a body fat percentage that's as low as it can healthily be, I have a pooch that hangs over the scar. I bulge out on one side. I had a number of surgeries on my belly area shortly before I got pregnant so the scars from those are particularly stretched and distorted. All of that is permanent.

And the reality is I'm never going to love it because it is what happened when I made my son. I hate it, I'd magic it away if I could. It's not tiger stripes, it's damage caused because we have a pelvis for bipeds but big heads for our big brains and reproduction prioritises the survival of the new generation over the ongoing health of the old. I honestly don't need to be infantilised with silly slogans for my damaged body.

In the last two years I have developed a visibly strong core. Just the existence of well built abdominal muscles pulls up that whole area of my body and helps with the fat distribution. Those muscles becoming visibly large fills in some of the excess skin and and changes the shape of my abdomen. And my upper body being stronger pulls up the skin and even my improved shoulder and back posture improves how my skin falls. (And my larger chest muscles have taken away the tennis ball in a sock look my breasts had after I finished breastfeeding.) How the damage looks when I'm fit and healthy is worlds away from how the damage looked when I was overweight/obese. I'll always have that damage but how I feel about it is so different. And it's different through empowerment.

You sound like me, trance, a bit - it sucks. I do think either extreme of hating or being asked to love your body is weird and like all social media shite, extremely simplistic.

(There's a common baby 'mantra' that gets repeated day in day out on here that I found very difficult because it just did not relate to my situation and would have resulted in my baby having serious health problems if I'd have followed it! I did get the red mist whenever I saw it).

For years I've wondered why I have to appraise how much I like or don't like my body, and generally refuse to do so. My disproportionate shape was inviting comments on pregnancy and also I couldn't find clothes that fit (still find it hard) so it became a real issue to address because of that, but I did have the niggling question of why I couldn't accept myself with bulging middle, so it is quite insidious.

I'm glad I did look into it and I'm cross that there's no ongoing support after birth because too many people put up with 'minor' or even major niggles. I'm in way better health now.

I ageee with what everyone is saying, there are two attitudes that bother me and they are the two extremes. One extreme is the bounce back culture, the expectation that anyone who doesn’t bounce back is greedy and lazy and didn’t try hard enough. The second is the way that damage to women’s bodies is dismissed and we are expected just to put up with it. The implication being that we should grateful for a healthy baby and that our ruined bodies are the price you pay for that.

I’m doing mutu at the moment to aide my recovey which feels to me like exactly the right balance. It accepts that recovery will be slow and difficult and take a lot of work, it acknowledges that women have been through a lot to create and birth a baby and that that is a huge achievement but it also provides a route to recovery and an acceptance that women want to recover and be strong and live normal lives as well as having a child.

I really don't think this is a man thing - it's an arsehole thing. I'd like to think he's qualified to deliver post natal-specific classes so what he's delivering is at least safe and effective and it would certainly be a requirement of his insurance that he has a L3 pre/post natal qualification. However I've done this qual myself and there is absolutely nothing in it about "getting your body back". It covers a lot about diastasis, pelvic floor, ligament laxity from relaxin, nutritional requirements, benefits and barriers to pre and post natal exercise, that sort of thing, but nothing about how women should be encouraged or expected to "bounce back" to pre-pregnancy weight asap.

I know a guy who teaches this qualification, among many others. In a million years I couldn't imagine him marketing a class as "get your body back". But I could imagine him professionally and empathetically coaching women on how to work on pelvic floor issues and what's good and bad for diastasis recti, in a similar way to how he'd work with a client who suffers from an orthopaedic condition - using knowledge and training to provide a safe and effective workout or rehab plan.

@Pitavina funnily enough I read your OP and was about to post and ask if you had come across MUTU, then I saw your latest post and see you have!

I did it 2 years ago and whilst I was slack and didn't actually finish the programme off properly, what I did do was very beneficial for me and it was just so nice to do something that was designed for the post-partum body. That feeling of "disconnect" with your own body can be so strong and in the midst of getting to grips with being a mum you can end up feeling totally lost.

Thanks @CaveMum I’m persevering! I’d love to be able to run again but feel somewhat like the top half of my body is made of jelly. It’s good to hear that it helped someone.