Male/female friendships

[Comedycook]

Hi... thought I would post here as I believe this is a feminist issue and I fear I'll be torn to shreds in aibu

I'm of the belief that men who are interested in having a genuine friendship (with no ulterior motives) with women are very thin on the ground.

Many women, particularly younger ones, shout me down when I express this view. However, from my own experience, I believe lots of men who are friends with women are doing so on the off chance that they might be in with a chance one day. When I was younger, slim, pretty, single I had plenty of make friends. As a fatter, older, settled down mum , I have none. Funny that!

So I'll accept there will be totally platonic friendships between men and women, but I think these are few and far between and many women are incredibly naive about what male friends are really thinking.

Thoughts?

2 of my closest friends are men. we've seen each other through births, deaths, all that life throws at you.

one i met @ uni. the other through our work. they both are friends w my husband, too and our kids get along. i feel fortunate to have such strong relationships

@Comedycook

I actually thought on the feminism board there would be other posters who would understand my viewpoint and how I don't believe the vast majority of men are interested in platonic male/female friendship

It's a mistake to post anything anywhere on the basis that you think everyone will agree with you 😆

But also it's probably not that surprising that on the feminism board, you have found a number of women confident enough in themselves as human beings that they believe they might have something else to offer to male friends than a sniff of a chance of a fumble.

It seems entirely unremarkable to me that I don't have male friends...there are lots of women who dont.

It's not unremarkable at all.
But you seem to think it's remarkable that other women can have a different viewpoint to yours, and actually have male friends without any romantic involvement.

you have found a number of women confident enough in themselves as human beings that they believe they might have something else to offer to male friends than a sniff of a chance of a fumble

Oh yes, it's definitely the fault of women for not having enough confidence... nothing to do with male entitlement and men who think any woman who gives them the time if day is up for it...namalt obviously

@MiddlesexGirl

Perhaps it's the way in which you are meeting men. I meet them through a shared interest. That's what is the gel in the friendship. Truly there is only one that might be interested if circumstances were different. It's quite easy to tell that the others aren't and really.... it doesn't matter if they are interested - we all know what the score is.

I do think this is the key

@Comedycook talks about chatting to someone and inviting them out for coffee - and how it would be seen as a date with a man. But i wouldn't do that to a random woman either.
The two men im closest to friendship wise, one i met at work at 16, dated his friend and its just endured. Second one met through shared interest, friends as a group then slowly developed into proper friendship over years. But my female friends are the same. Through a college course, NCT, work.

Not am I so desperate for male friendship that it's worth the risk of bothering to find one. It isn't about desperately bothering to find one, its about allowing friendships to develop organically, with either sex

it isn't about desperately bothering to find one, its about allowing friendships to develop organically, with either sex

Yes but my point was that I had these when younger and no longer do nor does any situation come about where I would. Therefore it appears that the previous male friends were perfectly happy to be with friends with young, pretty, slim, single me but it's all just superficial

I had these when younger and no longer do

So you think your male friends all dropped you at the point they decided they didn't want to have sex with you any more? So not lives moving apart (i habe plenty of female friend's from when i was young, single, pretty that i no longer see) or availability or lifestyles. They just each looked at you one day, thought "urgh i wouldn't fuck her anymore" and stopped talking to you?

nor does any situation come about where I would well thats clearly your lifestyle choice as you've made it clear in here you couldn't be bothered to invest time in a man to see if a friendship developed so either your work and hobbies are female dominant or you just don't socialise with the men

I don't think the idea of friendship/potential romantic interest are mutally exclusive somehow.

I've often had more male than female friends, I have some hobbies that tend to be male dominated, I studied in a male dominated area, for a while I worked in a very male dominated job. The main exception is when I was home with kids, when I met and spent time with more women, and so the were a larger part of my day to day, and I now work in a female dominated area, so the people I meet are more often women.

I think the pattern of women meeting more women when they become mothers is very common and nothing to do with preferring female friends. It's just a matter of more similar like stages.

As far as sexual tension, in many cases men and women who like each other enough to be friends, and find each other attractive, will find there is potential for a romantic relationship. If that doesn't happen because one person isn't interested in that way, or they are married to other people, or they don't feel they would be seriously compatible as partners, that does not make the friendship fake somehow, even though they might be open to it in other circumstances. That being said, some people seem to find that sort of thing more difficult to navigate and might prefer to avoid it. There are people who don't seem to be able to deal with sexual attraction without doing something about that but that hardly applies to men only.

I would say that at this point in my life I am more hesitant to become close friends with married men, because I don't want to make their wives uncomfortable. I might meet up with them for a mutual hobby, or if we are doing an activity with kids together, but I probably wouldn't tend to ask them out to the pub without their wife. I'm more likely to do that with unmarried male friends.

@Comedycook

I actually thought on the feminism board there would be other posters who would understand my viewpoint and how I don't believe the vast majority of men are interested in platonic male/female friendship

There is a big difference between having mainly same-sex friendships, or noticing that many people prefer this, and saying mixed sex friendships are rare or impossible.

I think the pattern of women meeting more women when they become mothers is very common and nothing to do with preferring female friends. It's just a matter of more similar like stages. Absolutely. But op sounds like the kind of women who give my friend funny looks at playgroup and sit as far away from him as possible because he's not a Mom and therefore couldn't possibly enjoy coffee and kid chat

@SleepingStandingUp

I think the pattern of women meeting more women when they become mothers is very common and nothing to do with preferring female friends. It's just a matter of more similar like stages. Absolutely. But op sounds like the kind of women who give my friend funny looks at playgroup and sit as far away from him as possible because he's not a Mom and therefore couldn't possibly enjoy coffee and kid chat

That's a vile comment

Just because I don't particularly want friendships with men doesn't mean I go round giving them dirty looks or not uttering a word of civilized chit chat.

@Comedycook

you have found a number of women confident enough in themselves as human beings that they believe they might have something else to offer to male friends than a sniff of a chance of a fumble

Oh yes, it's definitely the fault of women for not having enough confidence... nothing to do with male entitlement and men who think any woman who gives them the time if day is up for it...namalt obviously

You're entirely missing the point of what i said.

This thread is bizarre.
Not the op, the comments.
And for feminist board it’s even more strange....

@YouShouldLeave

This thread is bizarre. Not the op, the comments. And for feminist board it’s even more strange....

Ok I'm pleased it's not just me who thinks so!

That's a vile comment why is it vile? You've said you're a woman's woman who enjoys talking about the things women talk about, you wouldn't put any effort into making friends woth a man because you don't want to and you'd assume any man who tried to be friendly was contemplating sex with you. I don't think its a massive extrapolation from all of that to my comment

@Gormless

Just once it would be nice to see a discussion like this that doesn’t assume universal heterosexuality. Some of us have completely different experiences of the dynamics under discussion.

I think this every time this discussion comes up on MN. There's often an assumption that everyone is straight.

I'm a lesbian. My best friend is a gay man so there's clearly no attraction in either direction! But other close friends include men and women of all sexualities, and these are all good friendships without any sexual tension.

When it comes to "is he cheating?" threads, a lot of posters also seem to assume that nobody can have a platonic friendship with the sex that they are attracted to. My wife is bisexual, so I often want to ask if I'm supposed to be suspicious about all her friendships.

I do wonder if these assumption affect who we all make friends with, though. I know if a male colleague asked me to grab a drink after work, I would wonder if he was flirting and be more likely to make an excuse, so would potentially miss out on that friendship.

Siepie
Gormless
Just once it would be nice to see a discussion like this that doesn’t assume universal heterosexuality. Some of us have completely different experiences of the dynamics under discussion.
I think this every time this discussion comes up on MN. There's often an assumption that everyone is straight.

I'm a lesbian. My best friend is a gay man so there's clearly no attraction in either direction! But other close friends include men and women of all sexualities, and these are all good friendships without any sexual tension.

When it comes to "is he cheating?" threads, a lot of posters also seem to assume that nobody can have a platonic friendship with the sex that they are attracted to. My wife is bisexual, so I often want to ask if I'm supposed to be suspicious about all her friendships.

I do wonder if these assumption affect who we all make friends with, though. I know if a male colleague asked me to grab a drink after work, I would wonder if he was flirting and be more likely to make an excuse, so would potentially miss out on that friendship.

There is a lot of heteronormativity involved. But I don’t think the point of the OP is about sexual attraction getting in the way of friendship in general but about male entitlement and the lack of value placed on women-as-people-not-not-sexual-partners in male culture. Which does, to a lesser extent, exist even in gay male cultures.

^^ Sorry about screwing up the formatting

@YouShouldLeave

This thread is bizarre. Not the op, the comments. And for feminist board it’s even more strange....

No- the OP and her follow-up comments are bizarre. She seems incapable of understanding other people, indeed other women, have different lives, experiences and friends from hers. At least one poster thinks saying that is "nega

@SleepingStandingUp

That's a vile comment why is it vile? You've said you're a woman's woman who enjoys talking about the things women talk about, you wouldn't put any effort into making friends woth a man because you don't want to and you'd assume any man who tried to be friendly was contemplating sex with you. I don't think its a massive extrapolation from all of that to my comment

Well I'm perfectly capable of being in the company of men and not giving out dirty looks or blanking them entirely. It's a bizarre interpretation of my thought process.

@YouShouldLeave

This thread is bizarre. Not the op, the comments. And for feminist board it’s even more strange....

No- the OP and her follow-up comments are bizarre. She seems incapable of understanding other people, indeed other women, have different lives, experiences and friends from hers. At least one poster thinks saying that is "negating" the OP's experience.

But I don’t think the point of the OP is about sexual attraction getting in the way of friendship in general but about male entitlement and the lack of value placed on women-as-people-not-not-sexual-partners in male culture

Thank you...you have expressed it much more articulately than I have.

Actually don't know why I bothered. According to the majority of posters on this thread, men all see women as intellectual equals and don't allow sexual attraction to get in the way of that. They all look completely beyond the superficial. How marvellous.

@Comedycook

But I don’t think the point of the OP is about sexual attraction getting in the way of friendship in general but about male entitlement and the lack of value placed on women-as-people-not-not-sexual-partners in male culture

Thank you...you have expressed it much more articulately than I have.

Actually don't know why I bothered. According to the majority of posters on this thread, men all see women as intellectual equals and don't allow sexual attraction to get in the way of that. They all look completely beyond the superficial. How marvellous.

Stop exaggerating. No one has said. You're just peeved because you didn't get universal validation of your view that men and women being friends is vanishingly rare.

You're just peeved because you didn't get universal validation of your view that men and women being friends is vanishingly rare

Or is it that actually my experiences have been totally disregarded