Male/female friendships

[Comedycook]

Hi... thought I would post here as I believe this is a feminist issue and I fear I'll be torn to shreds in aibu

I'm of the belief that men who are interested in having a genuine friendship (with no ulterior motives) with women are very thin on the ground.

Many women, particularly younger ones, shout me down when I express this view. However, from my own experience, I believe lots of men who are friends with women are doing so on the off chance that they might be in with a chance one day. When I was younger, slim, pretty, single I had plenty of make friends. As a fatter, older, settled down mum , I have none. Funny that!

So I'll accept there will be totally platonic friendships between men and women, but I think these are few and far between and many women are incredibly naive about what male friends are really thinking.

Thoughts?

I think it depends a lot on your life.

If you work in a male dominated job then naturally you will chat to loads of colleagues who happen to be male and with some you will get on well.

Interests, hobbies, outlook on life, shared life experiences etc same as with anyone.

I've never really cared about what lots of men and women do with a sort of prejudging who you will get on with. Many people will assume they won't get on with people who are a very different age, background, education, etc etc.

I don't get that. I just talk to everyone and some I become friends with if we get on.

The other thing is if you have a work that goes to the pub after a lot and you like that, invariably most of the others in that group are men and of course socialising over a drink leads to friendships.

I have male friends where absolutely nothing would ever happen.

One i only really see with our DC but that's cos they're the same age. Friends ?25 years. Fancied him when i was 16. Got over it quick.

One i see at residential training courses several times a year, we spend a whole day in the city together once or twice a year, go out as a larger group too. Again never gone there.

I'm friendly with others but don't see them outside of the above activity.

I can only assume im horrifically unattractive

I don't care for the female partners of DH friends thing.

There's no reason I would get on with them just because the men are friends is there.

Ditto the things like school gates, post natal groups and so on. Pretty random bunch of people no reason you would have anything in common.

The partners of your OH mates thing annoys me tbh. Yes we're all female. Why on earth would that mean we're going to get on?

And why are we expected to be with the women rather than the men?

Eg BBQs the women quite often seem to often end up in the kitchen making salads and drinking wine while the men are outside drinking beer. Why?

Don't be silly sleeping!

It was when I was 16- 25 maybe that happened. Never since thank God. At least with trying it on.

And if they don't try it on then it's neither here nor there, is it.

Mad someone who has quite a few male friends and who is fatter, taken with kids I both agree and disagree.

I think you can very well have guy friends that if things were different would love to date/sleep with you but despite this still are happy to be friends with you only as they don't have a major crush on you if that makes sense.

I don't think if a man wants to pursue a woman ultimately he would let being taken, having kids, being older etc bother him much. That is of course a generalisation.

I've read a book that's very interesting recently (I say read, it's actually been on Audible) it's called When Men Behave Badly.

It goes into how men are always open for new experiences and were women ultimately want a back up/fall back person (like a close male friend) in the event she loses her partner. This is obviously oversimplified but using our adaptations to what we are preset to do - it's very interesting.

Because very few women I'd imagine think on whether they'd be with their male friend if given half the chance.

@NiceGerbil

'No there isn't. My best friend of well over 30 years was married when I met him and is still married to the same woman. There's not any spark of sexual attraction between us.'

Why are other women's experiences less important than yours? To the point yours negates them entirely?

One man is hardly a massive sample is it!

What a ridiculous comment. I was responding to the question "is there always an element if them viewing women as potential sexual partners"

Answer - no. That has not been my experience- ergo the answer to question is "no, there is not always that element"

You have , as you often do, twisted and invented what was said to turn it into hyperbolic nonsense about "negating etc, etc, etc. I said nothing whatsoever about the poster's experience being less important. I answered her question.

@Hawkins001

I'll admit, I prefer more friendships with ladies, mainly for a more varied conversational topics of different topics and subjects from make-up, to fashion, to other topics they have understanding aboit, and then also if the friendship begins to develop a connection then if the lady wanted to, then it could progress deeper and more engaged levels of intrigue and connections, yes I like male friendships too,

Engaged levels of intrigue??

@Hawkins001

I'll admit, I prefer more friendships with ladies, mainly for a more varied conversational topics of different topics and subjects from make-up, to fashion, to other topics they have understanding aboit, and then also if the friendship begins to develop a connection then if the lady wanted to, then it could progress deeper and more engaged levels of intrigue and connections, yes I like male friendships too,

I have a lot of female friends. I can honestly say I have never discussed makeup or fashion with any of them, let alone ‘more engaged levels of intrigue and connection’, whatever that means. I have also never viewed my friends as ‘ladies’.

I have close and long standing male friends, and i am sure that they don't want to have sex with me any more than i want to have sex with them (whatever anyone's sexuality). My daughters also have good male friends, which I am very pleased about. I wonder how many lovely male/female friendships are lost because one or both people enter into a relationship with someone who is similarly suspicious that there's some sort of sexual motive.

@TubeOfSmarties

I have close and long standing male friends, and i am sure that they don't want to have sex with me any more than i want to have sex with them (whatever anyone's sexuality). My daughters also have good male friends, which I am very pleased about. I wonder how many lovely male/female friendships are lost because one or both people enter into a relationship with someone who is similarly suspicious that there's some sort of sexual motive.

Absolutely, or because they think there’s a sexual motive themselves.

I’ve said it before on here, but Mn is full of people posting about being desperately lonely and wanting friends, and yet discounting fully half the human race as potential friends.

Or, as @Comedycook has said on this thread, saying she has absolutely no idea how to strike up a friendship with a man.

'It goes into how men are always open for new experiences and were women ultimately want a back up/fall back person (like a close male friend) in the event she loses her partner. This is obviously oversimplified but using our adaptations to what we are preset to do - it's very interesting.'

I don't understand.

I meet people men or women and like them a lot or s bit etc depending on how we get on, and vice versa.

Same for men and women.

'as you often do, twisted and invented what was said to turn it into hyperbolic nonsense'

Erm. I don't recognise your name. Should I?

That feels like putting the boot in because you apparently don't like what I've posted on other threads! Ok. I can't respond as I don't know which threads about what etc.

Saying oh you're a nightmare isn't really something I can counter is it, I was just posting what I think.

Anyway fair enough. If you don't like my posts then skip them I'd suggest.

'. I wonder how many lovely male/female friendships are lost because one or both people enter into a relationship with someone who is similarly suspicious that there's some sort of sexual motive.'

Or because they make a pass at you or say something explicit and so it's not a suspicion then is it!

I was really quite upset about this when young. I always thought that saying men and women being genuinely platonic friends was rare was very silly.

After all I had plenty of male friends! And then like I said there was a spate of trying to shove tongue down throat etc from a few of them. And it altered my view. Just because you see something as platonic doesn't mean they do.

And of course there can be attraction that will never be acted on but that still makes the friendship, different somehow. Would they spend time with you if they didn't fancy you? Who knows.

So yeah I have worked that knowledge into my understanding of some of the dynamics that can exist between opposite sex friends.

People are people.

You have things in common/ a similar outlook to them or you don't.

Sex is irrelevant. Men are people same as women with obviously personalities as individuals as women's.

'
I’ve said it before on here, but Mn is full of people posting about being desperately lonely and wanting friends, and yet discounting fully half the human race as potential friends.'..

Lots of men express loneliness etc and find friendships with other men fairly superficial.

And lots of men discount women as friendship material.

This is what I have observed, over many years and being in loads of different friendship groups.

The media etc push this as well with all the stuff where the men relate to men and the women relate to women.

Weekend with the girls / boys.

It's quite a strong message given by society.

It may not be so much that you are "fatter, older, settled down" but that the men are too.
In your late teens and 20s, many people are trying to couple up, so "trying it on" with other people.
Into their 30s and 40s, more people are settled themselves, so less interested in chatting up others, maybe more so if they are married.
Don't forget they will be older and uglier too, and unless they are chasing teenagers, if they are looking, they'll be looking for someone a similar age to themselves.

@NiceGerbil

Don't be silly sleeping!

It was when I was 16- 25 maybe that happened. Never since thank God. At least with trying it on.

And if they don't try it on then it's neither here nor there, is it.

But the thread isn't about not having male friends in your teens / early twenties, its any age. Like @Comedycook not knowing how to talk to a man despite being married to one

Yeeeesss

And if you read my post you will see I have been thinking about this for years and cover from then to now :)

She didn't say not talk to. She said make friends with.

I posted my thoughts on that as well.

The thread is can opposite sex be platonic friends.

It's just chatting because after all posters will have a range of views depending on their own experiences. These views are unlikely to all come to the same conclusion as we all have different lives and experiences.

I have predominantly male friends - maybe a 70/30 ratio - I don’t trust men who don’t have female friends as they are often the type who only view women as potential conquests - therefore have only had relationships with men who have female friends, same goes for friendships with women who only have female friends (I steer well clear).

Thankfully, possibly because they have always been around a respectful, balanced & equal friendship groups, neither of my sons judge people purely on the basis of the contents of their underwear either & as far as I’m concerned the sooner society adapts to that view as the norm the better.

IMO there are good people and bad people and an entire spectrum in between which most of us fall in to. Kindness, loyalty and humour are probably the most valuable attributes in a friend to me, and that is irrespective of sex, race, religion & class.The majority of the most unpleasant people I’ve met in my life are the ones for whom the sex of the people they solely socialise with is the same as their own - it doesn’t foster a view of equality and respect if the sex of the person you are friends with is the primary quality you see when you spend time with them surely?

I've had one particular male friendship that has endured - I am almost 30 and we met aged 13. I know he was light heartedly attracted to me when we first met (but I had a serious boyfriend for years) and later I became somewhat interested in him but he had a partner who he is still with many years later.

I love my friend for the person he is and we now have a kind of sibling like relationship. We aren't as close as we once were because life responsibilities have taken over but we are still there for each other. I think that we will have a lifelong friendship unless anything major changes.

But all of my other male friendships have mainly fallen by the wayside. Either because we were never as close or because their attraction has made me very uncomfortable. In the past, I enjoyed knowing a male friend was into me. Now it makes me uneasy and like the friendship isn't genuine, so I have more female friendships now

'Thankfully, possibly because they have always been around a respectful, balanced & equal friendship groups, neither of my sons judge people purely on the basis of the contents of their underwear either & as far as I’m concerned the sooner society adapts to that view as the norm the better.'

That's really interesting.

IME hardly any men are 100% respectful about women.

I mentioned on another thread I have the dubious honour of groups of men often (not always!) seeing me as one of them. This means often seeming to forget I'm female and being less guarded.

Most men seem to alter their behaviour/ conversation if there is a woman in the mix. I mean they aren't all boorish sods obv but there's definitely a 'ladies present' type thing. Groups of women often do this too.

I totally agree that we are all people with different personalities etc and should proceed on that basis

In practice I'd think most people have biases though. About loads of things. Sex, education, wealth, age, where they live, jobs Inc unemployment, style/ dress sense, religion, and I mean there's millions.

I suppose it's human nature that many people v stick to the familiar?

And the 'divide' between the sexes is pushed and pushed and accepted and promoted/adopted by loads of people.

Over the years I've come to the conclusion that loads of men simply prefer being around men.

Again that's just my experience.

I mean this doesn't apply to people known for ages etc!

I just can't think really of men I've met who never nod along with sexism/ objectification, never make a casual sexist comment, etc etc.

And in the end. Women say all sorts when men aren't there. And say isn't X film star sexy etc.

I'm not sure I'd want everyone never to do that. And it wouldn't happen as we're people and people do that.

I don't like nasty comments, bullying, taking the piss out of stuff people can't help or embarrassing them etc. Both sexes do that.

But I think it going to the other extreme would be much fun either

Of course i don't know what behaviours you're thinking of, so all of this could be way off the mark!

Sorry that mammoth post was thinking about chips comment!

Also... When I was in sixth form and before, being friends with opposite sex/ mixed groups of friends was normal. I don't know if that has changed for young people or not.

@Gormless

Just once it would be nice to see a discussion like this that doesn’t assume universal heterosexuality. Some of us have completely different experiences of the dynamics under discussion.

The overwhelming majority of humanity is heterosexual. People will be speaking from their personal experiences and this will tend to reflect the interactions between heterosexual women and men. It's unrealistic to expect others to think about a sexual orientation they don't share. 🙄🙄

If you have a different perspective based on your own sexual orientation, then by all means share your experiences and thoughts on how this shapes the dynamics between women and men.

I think it just depends on your situation. When I was in my 20s I had loads of male friends. I was single but I don't think there was attraction on either side - it was more that I was available to go to parties and have fun.
Life changes, I got married, had kids. So did they. We're still friends but also now equally with their wives.
I tend to make new friends with women now - but that's mainly because we're the ones who are more proactive in organising play dates (annoyingly).
Plus, it would be weird if I suddenly started hanging out with a new bloke friend all the time - I wouldn't want to hurt my husband. I don't think I'd be comfortable if he did the same with a new female friend.
Perhaps it's over sensitive but that's how it is.
We have, as a couple, made new friends with other couples, and therefore I guess we both have new opposite sex friends.
Single female friends in their 40s have loads of male mates. Come to think of it, one of my husbands oldest friends is a single female (who has become a close friend of mine too).