Male/female friendships

[Comedycook]

Hi... thought I would post here as I believe this is a feminist issue and I fear I'll be torn to shreds in aibu

I'm of the belief that men who are interested in having a genuine friendship (with no ulterior motives) with women are very thin on the ground.

Many women, particularly younger ones, shout me down when I express this view. However, from my own experience, I believe lots of men who are friends with women are doing so on the off chance that they might be in with a chance one day. When I was younger, slim, pretty, single I had plenty of make friends. As a fatter, older, settled down mum , I have none. Funny that!

So I'll accept there will be totally platonic friendships between men and women, but I think these are few and far between and many women are incredibly naive about what male friends are really thinking.

Thoughts?

[buckeejit]

I had Loads of male friends when I was younger. Now I'm older, I still have those friends but we're not as close & I'm often closer to their wives - probably due to us all having traditional type families & the women we're off on maternity & became the default parent.

When I was younger, I was more likely to go to the pub at the drop of a hat. Now, neither me nor male friends have that same level of freedom, or energy. I'd probably rather stay in the house. I think in my friendship groups, there are similar attitudes to this.

I think on balance though that men are more likely to be nice to a women if they want in her knickers!😉

[NeedNewKnees]

The only men I'm 'friends' with are really husbands/partners of my actual friends, with maybe one exception. It wasn't like this in my late teens and twenties.

It's the Nora Ephron question, isn't it?

[Comedycook]

The only men I'm 'friends' with are really husbands/partners of my actual friends

Yes, same with me. If my friends got divorced I know I wouldn't still be friends with their DH/do so I don't count them as genuine friendships....

[deydododatdodontdeydo]

Wasn't this question in When Harry Met Sally?
When I was younger I had more friends than I do now, female and male.
Since maybe aged 30, most of my friends have been couples, though.
FWIW I believe you can be friends without wanting to fuck each other.

[sailmeaway]

I have loads of male friends. I have female friends with close male friendships with nothing else in the mix. So YABU.

[Demilunary]

I found your post on the other thread depressing and reactionary. I’m 49, certainly not pretty, happily married, and some of my closest long-standing friendships are with men. There is not the remotest romantic spark in any of these. We have been on holiday/blind drunk together, they’ve been married/single, and no one has accidentally fallen onto anyone else’s genitals, or come anywhere close.

As I said on the other thread, DH’s closest friend till her death was a woman 30 years older than him. He goes running with our female GP. We’re having dinner tomorrow with a friend from our student days whom I’d fallen completely out of touch with, but DH had kept seeing.

In the nicest possible way, from seeing you around on other threads, you seem to have incredibly entrenched views about men and women.

[Miliao]

What a load of rubbish. I probably have more male friends than female.

[Comedycook]

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just dubious

[NumberTheory]

I think it’s true that a lot of men are friendly towards women, especially younger women, because they want to sleep with them or get some sort of sexual ego boost. And I think it’s fairly normal to be a bit naive about that when you’re a young woman.

But I wouldn’t say male-female friendships are necessarily thin on the ground because that’s all most men are after. I found male friendships much harder to develop and maintain once I had children. I was puzzled by this for a few years. But recently I’ve come to the conclusion it’s mainly (though not completely) because the focus of my world changed and we had almost no shared ground to build a friendship on. I have only really made new friends amoung other mothers since having kids too, not child-free women, and my friendships with some women without kids has taken a big hit (though some, even though they don’t have kids seem much better able to empathise with my situation than any of my old male friend’s, fathers or not). Recently my kids made friends at school with a couple of kids whose dads are their “default” parent and we’re building up friendships much as I do with other mothers.

[Beamur]

I think it's possible to be friends, but equally I think some men would be happy to be more than friends if that was on offer (and maybe a few women too!). I have several entirely platonic male friends there is occasionally an element of friendly flirting but the lines are clear.
I think I'm much more mindful of respecting other women's interests these days and don't want to accidentally cause any friction so if I get even an inkling of a friendship being inappropriate I would back off. Even if my conscience was clear.

[lazylinguist]

Hmm. When I was young I had male friends, but in most cases I have plenty of reason to know or believe that they would have wanted more than friendship if I'd been interested, and I had flings with several at various points. Some I'm still friends with decades later although we're all married. Most of the male friends I have now are married longstanding friends of dh's who I know as part of a couple and met through dh. We don't see them often and they're only really m6 friends by association with dh.

So yes, in my personal experience I agree, OP. But that's not necessarily the case for everyone.

[nancy75]

I have 1 very close male friend, we’ve been best friends for 32 years, there has never been a hint of either of us being interested in being more than friends (plenty of opportunity over the years, we’ve been very drunk a lot, been on holiday together, shared flats, been there for break ups)
While I know with a lot of men there is that ‘maybe’ it’s definitely not always the case.

[Finfintytint]

When much younger, I had many male friends that I would chat to, go to the cinema, pubs, restaurants, etc with. Every single one of them I eventually slept with after several months.
Been married now 30 years and I have a couple of male colleagues who’d I consider to be friends. I have a sneaky feeling they’d be up for a sexual relationship if no one was married or no one found out. It devalues the relationships and makes me feel a bit sad.

[Demilunary]

But @Finfintytint and @lazylinguist, you slept with your male friends. You we’re at least equally attracted to them! What the OP is claiming is that men befriend naive young women, and are only in those friendships because they secretly hope for a shag, which doesn’t sound like either of your experience. I’m late 40s, not especially good-looking and have both long-standing male friends from when I was a pretty 20something, and have made a couple of new male friends this past year or two since moving countries in 2019.

[Finfintytint]

@Demilunary

But *@Finfintytint and @lazylinguist*, you slept with your male friends. You we’re at least equally attracted to them! What the OP is claiming is that men befriend naive young women, and are only in those friendships because they secretly hope for a shag, which doesn’t sound like either of your experience. I’m late 40s, not especially good-looking and have both long-standing male friends from when I was a pretty 20something, and have made a couple of new male friends this past year or two since moving countries in 2019.

Yes, I see what you mean. I was not initially attracted to them and saw them as friends only. The attraction came long after enjoying the friendship.

[YouShouldLeave]

Well, i’m ugly and always have been and no man has ever wanted to be friends with me, so i’d say...
YANBU

[goldglassesandchains]

I have male friends, always have. But I am bisexual (or pansexual whatever the kids call it these days) so have definitely had sexual tension in friendships with men and women.

[deydododatdodontdeydo]

I found male friendships much harder to develop and maintain once I had children.

Don't forget a lot of people in society frown on male-female friendships, more so when they have partners.
You only have to look at AIBU or Relationships on here.
If a woman's DH has a female friend, they are having an affair. No two ways about it.
There are always a lot of comments like "I wouldn't stand for that".
So, no surprise it's harder when you are older and coupled up.

[NumberTheory]

@deydododatdodontdeydo

I found male friendships much harder to develop and maintain once I had children.

Don't forget a lot of people in society frown on male-female friendships, more so when they have partners.
You only have to look at AIBU or Relationships on here.
If a woman's DH has a female friend, they are having an affair. No two ways about it.
There are always a lot of comments like "I wouldn't stand for that".
So, no surprise it's harder when you are older and coupled up.

In general that’s true. But it wasn’t particularly true for my social circle and I was married for over a decade before I had kids with quite a few male friends. I really do think it was to do with a very dramatic change in what my day to day life consisted of.

[NumberTheory]

*married and had quite a few male friends until I had kids a decade later. Not had kids with quite a few male friends!

[RavenclawsRoar]

I disagree. I have male friends and dh has female friends and I don't think any of us have "ulterior motives". I've never ever had sex with any of my close male friends, even in my younger single days when I was a lot slimmer and more attractive. I think it's perfectly possible to be friends with the opposite sex.

[Gormless]

Just once it would be nice to see a discussion like this that doesn’t assume universal heterosexuality. Some of us have completely different experiences of the dynamics under discussion.

[Finfintytint]

@Gormless

Just once it would be nice to see a discussion like this that doesn’t assume universal heterosexuality. Some of us have completely different experiences of the dynamics under discussion.

I have several gay friends and we have no desire whatsoever to have sex with each other. Female and male.

[DaisyWaldron]

I have good male and female friends, as does DH. But our circle of friends seems to be one that values friendship a lot, possibly more than romantic relationships, with people staying friends with exes and being fairly pragmatic and open about unrequited crushes etc within the friendship group.

[deydododatdodontdeydo]

Just once it would be nice to see a discussion like this that doesn’t assume universal heterosexuality. Some of us have completely different experiences of the dynamics under discussion.

Well contribute something then.
Usually, people seem to have less of an issue if the friend is not likely to have a sexual interest in the partner.